I know the Italian Chapter, the online fundraising team, and community
liaisons have been talking about solutions for a while and I won’t get in
the way of that, but I thought I would offer a few ideas on some of the
online organizing tactics being discussed here.  This probably falls in the
category of unsolicited advice and it might be bad advice at that.  To
quote a good song, “It’s bad advice only if you use it.”

On the topic of limiting impressions,  I agree that the fundraising use
case is different than WLM organizing.  I am still fairly sure that there
has to something more effective than running a full-time banner for a
month.  It would take testing a bunch of ideas to figure that out and
Central Notice has much more capacity now to test different things.  We are
happy to help brainstorm ideas for that if anyone wanted.

I understand that WLM’s has a common organizing challenge in that it’s a
couple step process for participation.  Would it make sense to prioritize a
“Sign up” or “Enter the Contest” feature on the landing pages that asks
people to submit their email addresses, so that you can followup with
them?  I mention this because online fundraising has experimented with a
“Remind me later” feature on mobile where we have people enter their email
addresses, so that we can send them a followup fundraising email. It has
had some good results. It seems like having email addresses for followup
would help keep people engaged in WLM and you could also reach out to them
next year.

Lastly, we could add an appeal to participate in WLM to the thank you email
we send to donors in Italy.  We would be happy to do it, if it’s useful.

Best regards,

Lisa

On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 5:20 AM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.w...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> This is not the first time this conflict appears, but this is the worst
> outcome ever so far. In all the years I have been asking for an explanation
> why it is not possible to move it, or why it is urgently to do it in
> September, nothing reasonable has been provided for that. Nothing in all
> those years.
>
> If a fundraising banner has a big negative influence on a project, I think
> it is time to have the community involved and have them speak out what they
> think about the situation. As FR only speaks to a few people, they seem to
> have the impression that they can freely decide without taking the
> community in account. I think it will be time to have the community speak
> out what they think in a request for comment/voting or something on Meta.
> Anyone an idea or the experience how to set such up?
>
> Romaine
>
> 2015-08-20 13:26 GMT+02:00 MF-Warburg <mfwarb...@googlemail.com>:
>
> > Which is Fundraising's point? I haven't seen anything here about why WMF
> so
> > urgently needs to request Italian donations in September.
> > Am 20.08.2015 07:27 schrieb "Risker" <risker...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > I can understand the frustration that members of WMIT are expressing
> > here,
> > > but I also see Fundraising's point.  I wonder if there are not some
> other
> > > options that could be considered.  For example, instead of a banner,
> > > perhaps a big bright button on the sidebar that says "Upload images for
> > > Wiki Loves Monuments here!" may be technically feasible.  It's not
> quite
> > > the equivalent of a banner, but it does address the wayfinding issue at
> > > least.  (I think that's possibly the biggest downside of not having the
> > WLM
> > > banners in rotation.)
> > >
> > > Let's give ourselves permission to think outside the box a bit here;
> both
> > > of these activities are valuable and important to our movement, each of
> > > them have different but viable reasons for wanting to proceed during
> that
> > > specific period. There are a lot of smart people reading this mailing
> > list.
> > > I'd like to think between the several-hundred of us we might be able to
> > > come up with a solution that works to accommodate both groups.
> > >
> > > Risker/Anne
> > >
> > > On 20 August 2015 at 01:19, Romaine Wiki <romaine.w...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Yes, Andrew is right. Navigation is a very important focus point of
> > > > organising every Wiki Loves Monuments.
> > > >
> > > > The complexity of the navigation is that MediaWiki and the whole
> group
> > of
> > > > Wikimedia wikis is not designed for navigation, but designed for
> > showing
> > > > content. In the past eight years small improvements have been made in
> > > this
> > > > field, but in general speaking it is still not easy to navigate for
> the
> > > > majority of the people.
> > > >
> > > > Romaine
> > > >
> > > > 2015-08-19 20:45 GMT+02:00 Andrea Zanni <zanni.andre...@gmail.com>:
> > > >
> > > > > I think Andrew is right: the WLM banner serves as a pointer, and
> it's
> > > > very
> > > > > easy to remember "go on Wikipedia and click into the banner on the
> > > top".
> > > > > It's much more difficult to remember the strange name of the
> contest
> > > (in
> > > > > Italy it's still called "Wiki Loves Monuments", even if it's
> > English).
> > > > >
> > > > > And of course we do not have good analytics for the banner: nobody
> > > knows
> > > > > homw many page views there are in a single wiki per day, so we
> cannot
> > > > count
> > > > > the clickthroughs (which we have as the link is on a WLM landing
> > page).
> > > > >
> > > > > Aubrey
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Andrew Gray <
> > > andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On 19 August 2015 at 14:26, Sam Klein <sjkl...@hcs.harvard.edu>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > There's a more general problem here we should fix:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We already know that effectiveness of any single banner drops
> off
> > > > > > > dramatically after the first few views.  So there's rarely a
> > reason
> > > > to
> > > > > > run
> > > > > > > a continuous banner -- certainly not if there are other banners
> > to
> > > > run.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think we should be cautious about using our fundraising
> > experience
> > > > > > to predict the efficiency of 'delayed call-to-action' banners
> like
> > > WLM
> > > > > > - to my mind they seem to function in quite different roles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The fundraising banner is calling for an immediate action. You
> see
> > > it,
> > > > > > and you either donate or you don't. If you decide not to donate,
> > you
> > > > > > probably won't decide to donate on seeing it tomorrow, either;
> > while
> > > > > > if you have donated, you're probably not going to donate again.
> So
> > > the
> > > > > > banner being repeated doesn't gain us much, and it has
> > progressively
> > > > > > less value on the third, fourth, fifth appearances. There are
> > > > > > relatively few people who see a fundraising banner and decide
> "I'll
> > > > > > sleep on it", then come back tomorrow and donate. And if they
> *do*,
> > > > > > well - there's a donate link on every page, once they're looking
> > for
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However, WLM is calling for a delayed action - "go off, do
> > something,
> > > > > > and come back again to tell us about it".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The most desired outcome is probably that a previously uninvolved
> > > > > > person will see it, click through, think "that sounds fun", and
> go
> > > off
> > > > > > to take some photos - after all, it's running all month, they can
> > do
> > > > > > it at the weekend. A few days later they come back, and want to
> > > upload
> > > > > > their photos... but if the banner's not there on Wikipedia, they
> > > won't
> > > > > > really know where to go. They might not remember the name ("Wiki
> > > > > > something?"), making it hard to search for the contest, and they
> > > > > > probably didn't bookmark the WLM pages. There isn't anything else
> > on
> > > > > > the page that would help to take them there, and if they're not
> > > > > > involved in the projects already they probably won't know where
> the
> > > > > > information's likely to be. If we can't make sure they can find
> WLM
> > > > > > easily when they return, then we've wasted the original call to
> > > > > > action, we've wasted the potential contributions, *and*, most
> > > > > > importantly, we've wasted their time and goodwill.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think this difference in intended response styles makes it hard
> > to
> > > > > > generalise from the "diminishing returns" experienced on
> > fundraising.
> > > > > > Yes, a repeated banner will get progressively diminishing
> > > > > > clickthroughs. But with WLM, those second clickthroughs in some
> > ways
> > > > > > provide the "value" to the first clickthrough - they need to
> return
> > > to
> > > > > > make the campaign a success, which isn't really a concern for
> > > > > > fundraising. We need to make sure that that channel is open and
> > > > > > visible in some way when they come back.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Andrew.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > - Andrew Gray
> > > > > >   andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk
> > > > > >
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