Hi Jane,

The situation is more complicated for the organisers, yes.
But for participants in the contest it is not complicated. The Italian WLM
team has organised it in such way it is easy to participate.

Greetings,
Romaine

2015-08-24 13:08 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com>:

> I think you misunderstand me. What I meant to say is that though the impact
> of no banner might be great, it is not so great as it would be for those
> countries who can attract newbies to the competition. The Italian situation
> is so complicated that I don't think their proportion of "casual
> uploaders/experienced uploaders" is the same as for other countries, ergo,
> the banner would be less of an issue, though still an issue.
>
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.w...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Jane,
> > Yes, Italy is one of those odd countries without freedom of panorama. The
> > copyright on photos of monuments is held by local governments. Wikimedia
> > Italy has as large task to get permission from these hundreds/thousands
> > local administrations for the photos uploaded. Therefore organising Wiki
> > Loves Monuments in Italy is a very very heavy and extensive task in
> > comparison with other countries. The Italian Wiki Loves Monuments team
> does
> > a great job in getting all the permissions.
> >
> > You can't derive from the situation that there is no FoP, that thus the
> > impact won't be too great. Te kort door de bocht.
> >
> > Romaine
> >
> > 2015-08-24 12:19 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com>:
> >
> >> Isn't Italy one of those odd European countries that won't allow freedom
> >> of panorama? Surely the impact won't be too great, considering that the
> >> type of people who can participate are at least savvy enough to
> understand
> >> the oddities of the Italian monuments situation & Commons. Italy was
> late
> >> to join the WLM party for this reason, and I understand it is only
> specific
> >> municipalities that take part now.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.w...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Giving Wiki Loves Monuments the worst possible situation is certainly
> >>> not a compromise, but a situation in what users from the community are
> >>> crushed under the weight of the foundation. A compromise is, according
> to
> >>> the dictionary, a situation in what both parties concede something. In
> this
> >>> case, WLM concedes everything and WMF nothing.
> >>> I have seen already users asking if this will be the next big clash
> >>> between WMF and the community, after the VisualEditor, MediaViewer,
> >>> Superprotect and other issues. I personally hope not.
> >>>
> >>> You are of course free to think how much negative impact it will have,
> >>> but I base my numbers on the statistics from the past years. We have
> seen
> >>> each time a big influence from conflicting banners or outage. We have
> >>> followed the statistics and the impact of past years and we have
> learned
> >>> from the past that it has a big impact we certainly should not
> >>> underestimate.
> >>>
> >>> And I disagree with your statement that there always will be a clash
> >>> somewhere. There is no need for a clash if people work together on the
> >>> planning. September is not the only month in autumn, and not all
> countries
> >>> are occupied by Wiki Loves Monuments. Suggesting otherwise are fairy
> tales.
> >>> This is one of the strongest examples of bad planning I have seen in
> all
> >>> the years. Of every country that organises Wiki Loves Monuments, they
> have
> >>> picked the worst possible country.
> >>>
> >>> You reduce this problem to just a "number of emotive emails", with what
> >>> you make clear you missed the essence of this case.
> >>>
> >>> Romaine
> >>>
> >>> 2015-08-24 10:53 GMT+02:00 Chris Keating <chriskeatingw...@gmail.com>:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Romaine,
> >>>>
> >>>> > And the outcome is ridiculous. This is not a compromise. The Italian
> >>>> WLM
> >>>> > team has been crashed under the weight and preponderance of the
> >>>> Wikimedia
> >>>> > Foundation.
> >>>>
> >>>> Well - it *is* a compromise. It isn't what you want and I think I
> >>>> understand your reasons for thinking it will have a very big impact. I
> >>>> know
> >>>> from plenty of past experience of being a volunteer disagreeing with
> WMF
> >>>> staff  how frustrating this is (though actually I think the impact on
> >>>> WLM
> >>>> will be less than you expect in this case).
> >>>>
> >>>> But it is plainly not the case that the WMF has just blundered ahead
> >>>> with
> >>>> what it was going to do anyway. And even if WMF were not involved at
> all
> >>>> and there were some other method of allocating banner space, if Autumn
> >>>> has
> >>>> the peak fundraising potential and is when WLM happens, there will
> >>>> always
> >>>> be some kind of clash somewhere, and someone or other will not get
> what
> >>>> they want. No number of emotive emails will change that.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> Chris
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
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