Not sure how to measure this, but it would be interesting for our stats if
we COULD measure this. I define a casual uploader as someone who comes to
the upload wizard through the WLM easy upload link from a Wikipedia page
rather than some other way.

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 1:11 PM, Richard Symonds <
richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

> I am not sure how the Italian WLM works, but I believe they do still
> attract newbies to the competition. I am not sure about their proportion
> of "casual
> uploaders/experienced uploaders" but we haven't seen figures either way
> there.
>
> Richard Symonds
> Wikimedia UK
> 0207 065 0992
>
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> On 24 August 2015 at 12:08, Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think you misunderstand me. What I meant to say is that though the
>> impact
>> of no banner might be great, it is not so great as it would be for those
>> countries who can attract newbies to the competition. The Italian
>> situation
>> is so complicated that I don't think their proportion of "casual
>> uploaders/experienced uploaders" is the same as for other countries, ergo,
>> the banner would be less of an issue, though still an issue.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.w...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Jane,
>> > Yes, Italy is one of those odd countries without freedom of panorama.
>> The
>> > copyright on photos of monuments is held by local governments. Wikimedia
>> > Italy has as large task to get permission from these hundreds/thousands
>> > local administrations for the photos uploaded. Therefore organising Wiki
>> > Loves Monuments in Italy is a very very heavy and extensive task in
>> > comparison with other countries. The Italian Wiki Loves Monuments team
>> does
>> > a great job in getting all the permissions.
>> >
>> > You can't derive from the situation that there is no FoP, that thus the
>> > impact won't be too great. Te kort door de bocht.
>> >
>> > Romaine
>> >
>> > 2015-08-24 12:19 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com>:
>> >
>> >> Isn't Italy one of those odd European countries that won't allow
>> freedom
>> >> of panorama? Surely the impact won't be too great, considering that the
>> >> type of people who can participate are at least savvy enough to
>> understand
>> >> the oddities of the Italian monuments situation & Commons. Italy was
>> late
>> >> to join the WLM party for this reason, and I understand it is only
>> specific
>> >> municipalities that take part now.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.w...@gmail.com
>> >
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Giving Wiki Loves Monuments the worst possible situation is certainly
>> >>> not a compromise, but a situation in what users from the community are
>> >>> crushed under the weight of the foundation. A compromise is,
>> according to
>> >>> the dictionary, a situation in what both parties concede something.
>> In this
>> >>> case, WLM concedes everything and WMF nothing.
>> >>> I have seen already users asking if this will be the next big clash
>> >>> between WMF and the community, after the VisualEditor, MediaViewer,
>> >>> Superprotect and other issues. I personally hope not.
>> >>>
>> >>> You are of course free to think how much negative impact it will have,
>> >>> but I base my numbers on the statistics from the past years. We have
>> seen
>> >>> each time a big influence from conflicting banners or outage. We have
>> >>> followed the statistics and the impact of past years and we have
>> learned
>> >>> from the past that it has a big impact we certainly should not
>> >>> underestimate.
>> >>>
>> >>> And I disagree with your statement that there always will be a clash
>> >>> somewhere. There is no need for a clash if people work together on the
>> >>> planning. September is not the only month in autumn, and not all
>> countries
>> >>> are occupied by Wiki Loves Monuments. Suggesting otherwise are fairy
>> tales.
>> >>> This is one of the strongest examples of bad planning I have seen in
>> all
>> >>> the years. Of every country that organises Wiki Loves Monuments, they
>> have
>> >>> picked the worst possible country.
>> >>>
>> >>> You reduce this problem to just a "number of emotive emails", with
>> what
>> >>> you make clear you missed the essence of this case.
>> >>>
>> >>> Romaine
>> >>>
>> >>> 2015-08-24 10:53 GMT+02:00 Chris Keating <chriskeatingw...@gmail.com
>> >:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Hi Romaine,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> > And the outcome is ridiculous. This is not a compromise. The
>> Italian
>> >>>> WLM
>> >>>> > team has been crashed under the weight and preponderance of the
>> >>>> Wikimedia
>> >>>> > Foundation.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Well - it *is* a compromise. It isn't what you want and I think I
>> >>>> understand your reasons for thinking it will have a very big impact.
>> I
>> >>>> know
>> >>>> from plenty of past experience of being a volunteer disagreeing with
>> WMF
>> >>>> staff  how frustrating this is (though actually I think the impact on
>> >>>> WLM
>> >>>> will be less than you expect in this case).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> But it is plainly not the case that the WMF has just blundered ahead
>> >>>> with
>> >>>> what it was going to do anyway. And even if WMF were not involved at
>> all
>> >>>> and there were some other method of allocating banner space, if
>> Autumn
>> >>>> has
>> >>>> the peak fundraising potential and is when WLM happens, there will
>> >>>> always
>> >>>> be some kind of clash somewhere, and someone or other will not get
>> what
>> >>>> they want. No number of emotive emails will change that.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Regards,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Chris
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