I think we are stuck with Montreal and to change now isnt going address the
problems this decision has created,  no matter how the poor situation thats
been created is remedied every outcome will be a poisoned challis.  There
are measures IMHO that the WMF should take to ensure the people who created
this mess are held to account for it.

The only way forward now is to return to the community for its input on how
to take the Wikimania location/rotation process for 2018 onwards into a
workable solution that wont  cause further disillusionment within the
community


note: I say this as the co-ordinator of the Perth 2017 bid

On 5 October 2015 at 16:29, Ilario Valdelli <valde...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I would not comment the possibility of the community to manage a Wikimania.
>
> The community is the main stakeholder of Wikimedia, and as main stakeholder
> everything should be focused on the community.
>
> In the other hand I really think that the current trend of Wikimania is not
> *sustainable* neither for the community nor for the WMF staff.
>
> The staff can manage Wikimania but using a lot of resources, and it's not
> sustainable.
>
> The current position of the Wikimania's committee, even if bold, goes in
> the right direction to have a more sustainable Wikimania with a long term
> program of setup.
>
> The main concern is that this position should have been communicated more
> efficiently and should have been introduced to the community earlier.
>
> The community is not a stupid body, it's the body of Wikimedia.
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 11:03 PM, Pavel Richter <m...@pavelrichter.de>
> wrote:
>
> > 2015-10-04 22:42 GMT+02:00 Ziko van Dijk <zvand...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > Of course it is the committee to have its say about Wikimania.
> > >
> > > If I understand it well, the main problem was that the bid period was
> > > from August to November 2015, and some groups were working on their
> > > bids. They feel that they could have saved a lot of work if they had
> > > known before.
> > >
> >
> > ​Yes, I agree, Ziko. And I do not take it lightly. As I said,
> > communications was really, really bad here. So WMF would be well advised
> o
> > invite everyone who worked on a bid to Montreal 2017, all costs covered.
> > And maybe Lila would be well advised to call the good folks who prepared
> a
> > bid as well.
> >
> > BUT: That is not the main point. The main point is that Wikimedia now has
> > replaced a broken process. And we should celebrate that. (And if it turns
> > out that the new process does not work, than it will be changed again.
> > Hopefully not by consensus, but by a small group of people who just say:
> > Enough is enough).​
> >
> >
> > ​Pavel​
> >
> >
> > > Kind regards
> > > Ziko
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2015-10-04 22:38 GMT+02:00 Fæ <fae...@gmail.com>:
> > > > The ends should be used as the justification of the means.
> > > >
> > > > Never.
> > > >
> > > > Fae
> > > > On 4 Oct 2015 21:31, "Pavel Richter" <m...@pavelrichter.de> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> 2015-10-04 21:55 GMT+02:00 Theo10011 <de10...@gmail.com>:
> > > >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Those are some pretty broad leaps Pavel. They were never tasked to
> > > take
> > > >> > that decision. They came to a conclusion that the process is
> broken,
> > > they
> > > >> > thought to do away with the process, they picked a winner, and set
> > > about
> > > >> > corresponding with them, without telling anyone. Then, developed
> an
> > > >> entire
> > > >> > roadmap of where they want to see Wikimania next for the near
> > > foreseeable
> > > >> > future. All of this was never tasked to them in the first place.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > This committee isn't "community approved", their mandate isn't
> > > community
> > > >> > approved. Its members weren't elected, in fact, I don't know why
> and
> > > how
> > > >> > these people got on this committee, or how long they will be
> > > in-charge -
> > > >> > because someone certainly seems to think they are in-charge.
> Maybe I
> > > >> missed
> > > >> > a call or notification asking to join or approve or comment as to
> > who
> > > >> > should be on this committee.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Regards
> > > >> > Theo
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> Theo, you argue process, I argue outcome.
> > > >> They faced a problem, they tackled it, they made a decission. And
> > their
> > > >> mandate? They *showed up and volunteered*. That is enough mandate in
> > my
> > > >> book.
> > > >>
> > > >> The revolution will not be community-approved.
> > > >>
> > > >> Pavel
> > > >>
> > > >> > _______________________________________________
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> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >>
> > > >> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards,
> > > >>
> > > >> Pavel Richter
> > > >> Mobile: +49-151-19645755
> > > >> Mail: m...@pavelrichter.de
> > > >> Twitter: @pavel <https://twitter.com/pavel>
> > > >> Blog: blog.pavelrichter.de
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> >
> > --
> >
> > Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards,
> >
> > Pavel Richter
> > Mobile: +49-151-19645755
> > Mail: m...@pavelrichter.de
> > Twitter: @pavel <https://twitter.com/pavel>
> > Blog: blog.pavelrichter.de
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>
>
> --
> Ilario Valdelli
> Wikimedia CH
> Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
> Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
> Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
> Wikipedia: Ilario <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ilario>
> Skype: valdelli
> Facebook: Ilario Valdelli <https://www.facebook.com/ivaldelli>
> Twitter: Ilario Valdelli <https://twitter.com/ilariovaldelli>
> Linkedin: Ilario Valdelli <http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=6724469
> >
> Tel: +41764821371
> http://www.wikimedia.ch
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