On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Andreas Kolbe <jayen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lydia,
> I can only relate my impressions to you. The first two items I looked at

Now we're getting somewhere ;-)

> (Jerusalem and Obama) happened to be protected, so on my first visit I was
> completely non-plussed as to how to edit anything on Wikidata. I never
> noticed the lock icon (whereas I would have noticed, say, a coloured box at
> the top of the page informing me that the item is locked). If I had been
> just a random user, I would not have been back.

Ok. I think we can make the icon more colorful for example to draw
more attention to it. Mind you the icon is on-line with what you see
on Wikipedia as well. That is why we have it.

> Once I got over that one, I found the order in which statements are listed
> completely confusing. I would have expected them to follow some logical
> order, but it seems they are permanently *listed in the order in which they
> were added to Wikidata*. So someone's date of birth can be the last
> statement on a Wikidata page, or the first.
> Compare for example the location of the date of birth for Angela Merkel in
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q567 to the location of Barack Obama's date
> of birth in https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q76
> I tried to figure out a way to change the order, but couldn't find one.
> Again, profoundly demotivating. Machines may not be bothered by this,
> because they can instantly find what they are looking for, but people are.
> It might help to establish a default order for statements that makes
> logical sense to a human being, and that people can become used to.

Yes that is indeed one of the problems we have identified for quite
some time already. It is high on the list for 2016. I hope we get to
it in Q1.

> As for actual editing, a few weeks ago, figuring out how to add an IBM
> subsidiary to the IBM item, with a reference, must have taken me something
> like half an hour. I read Wikidata:Introduction, learned about properties,
> and then checked Help:Editing, which contained *nothing* about adding
> properties. The word is not even mentioned.

Ok so on-wiki documentation is not good enough. Point taken. It has
been written by editors who are familiar with Wikidata. Giving
feedback on the talk pages for those help pages would be valuable.

> After clicking "add" in the *existing* subsidiaries statement for IBM item,
> I saw a question mark icon with a "help text" that reads,
> ---o0o---
> Enter a value corresponding to the property named "subsidiaries". If the
> property has no designated value or the actual value is not known, you may
> choose an alternative to specifying a custom value by clicking the icon
> next to the value input box.
> ---o0o---
> I didn't find this text helpful at all. It could have simply said, "Enter
> the name of the subsidiary in the text box, and then add a reference."

It is not as easy as that unfortunately. Potentially no item exists
for that subsidiary and then you need to create one. Also the
explanation for no-value and some-value in the text is important
(though we need to improve the UI for them). But point taken we can
improve this message.

> At any rate, this is what I did. After I clicked "add reference", I got a
> new field that came with a "property" drop down menu pre-populated with
> "sex or gender", "date of birth", "given name", "occupation", "country of
> citizenship", "GND identifier" and "image", none of which are remotely
> relevant to entering a reference.

Those should not have shown up for references and I am not aware of
issues with that. Which statement was this specifically? The
suggestions are not always perfect but at least the distinction
between properties in the main part of the statement and its
references should work very well.

> The single property that would be most useful to list in that drop down
> menu when people have said they want to add a reference is "reference URL".
> But it's not included. If newbies don't know this property exists, how are
> they supposed to discover it? Somehow I got there, but it was not enjoyable.

As above this should have shown up.

> These are indeed all user interface issues, and quite separate from the
> other aspects we have been talking about. But they contribute to making
> this wiki less attractive as a site that ordinary people might want to
> contribute to manually, on a casual basis.
> Yes, if you are sufficiently motivated, you can figure things out. But as
> things stand, I didn't find it inviting.

Sure. As I said we still have quite some work to do and feedback such
as the above is what will help us make it better.

> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Lydia Pintscher <
> lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de> wrote:
>> That is why I am working with re-users of Wikidata's data on this.
>> They can link to Wikidata. They can build ways to let their users edit
>> in-place. inventaire and Histropedia are two projects that show the
>> start of this. As I wrote in my Signpost piece it needs work and
>> education that is ongoing.
> Use a licence that requires re-users to mention "Wikidata" on their sites,
> ideally with a link to the Wikidata disclaimer, and you won't have to do
> any education at all, and at the same time you'll have done a great thing
> for transparency of data provenance on the internet.
> Moreover, you will have ensured that hundreds of millions of Internet users
> are told where they can find Wikidata and edit it. Surely, if you actually
> *want* to have human beings visiting and editing your wiki, that's in your
> interest?

I think we have to agree to disagree on the licensing part and what is
best for Wikidata there. Yes I do want people to come to Wikidata but
I do not want the license to be our forceful stick to achieve this. We
have to work to build a project that people want to come to and
contribute to. And we can do it as the number of editors for example


Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
Product Manager for Wikidata

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
10963 Berlin

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.

Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

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