Regarding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jimbo_Wales/Statement_of_principles

Any changes to the software must be gradual and reversible. We 
need to make sure that any changes contribute positively to the 
community, as ultimately determined by the Wikimedia Foundation, in full
 consultation with the community consensus.

----

Lila at all, Why you don't consult he community about new projects/code?


> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 02:35:06 -0800
> From: l...@wikimedia.org
> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant  
> offer?
> 
> Hi Gnangarra,
> 
> Thank you for forwarding, the authors of the article seem to be confused
> about the nature of the project. Our Comms team is working to clarify this.
> Please expect to see something from us in next few days.
> 
> Lila
> 
> On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 8:51 PM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > FYI making main stream media
> >
> >
> > http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-15/wikimedia-foundation-aims-to-take-on-google-in-search/7168840
> >
> > On 14 February 2016 at 00:49, Anthony Cole <ahcole...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Anne, we're talking about almost the same thing, but not exactly. I say
> > > "advised" you say "consulted". "Consulted" implies soliciting or
> > expecting
> > > some kind of response or engagement - probably
> > > approval/disapproval/critique/input. "Advised" means they got the memo. I
> > > think "advised" is enough, and if the board wants more engagement, they
> > can
> > > initiate it - presuming the notification is clear and comprehensive, of
> > > course.
> > >
> > > Anthony Cole
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Risker <risker...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Well, I'm not sure about that, Anthony.  By "consulted", I would mean
> > > > something to the effect of "We're looking at applying to XX for a grant
> > > of
> > > > $YYY to do ZZZ" and asking the Board if they would be likely to agree
> > to
> > > > accept such a grant if the application is successful.  The grant
> > > > application, evaluation and approval process is costly in both time and
> > > > resources, and for both the applicant and the grantmaker.  Being
> > informed
> > > > that a grant has been approved sounds more like a fait accompli
> > situation
> > > > for the Board - they look petty and ungrateful if they say no, even if
> > > they
> > > > don't think it was a reasonable grant application.  In this case, we're
> > > > only dealing with $250,000.  What if this was $1 million?  $10 million?
> > > >
> > > > I think it is healthier for everyone if the Board is properly consulted
> > > > before the application is submitted.  (And again, I note that we don't
> > > know
> > > > how much was actually requested in this case, only what was granted.)
> > > >
> > > > Risker/Anne
> > > >
> > > > On 12 February 2016 at 21:23, Anthony Cole <ahcole...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Anne, regarding:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Since the Board must approve acceptance of any donations over
> > $100,000
> > > > > USD, it seems to be obvious that they should be consulted and
> > possibly
> > > > > should actively approve any grant applications where the dollar value
> > > > > sought is higher than that amount."
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not sure that the board should be *consulted* ahead of such
> > > > > applications' or should prior-approve all such applications. That
> > > seems a
> > > > > bit like micromanagement. But it makes sense to me for the board to
> > be
> > > > > *advised
> > > > > *of such applications and when they're being actively contemplated or
> > > > > prepared.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anthony Cole
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 9:11 PM, Risker <risker...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I'm sorry to hear that you feel this way, Gerard. I personally
> > would
> > > > like
> > > > > > to feel more assured that the WMF is looking into the longer future
> > > and
> > > > > > actively plannning for the day that donations no longer support a
> > > large
> > > > > > staff doing lots of things.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am concerned today that the team specifically tasked to work
> > > closely
> > > > > with
> > > > > > so many elements of the community has lost 7% of its staff, and 30%
> > > of
> > > > > its
> > > > > > leaders, in a single week. This should be a concern in any
> > > > organization.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With respect to the Knight grant - I know that many times grant
> > > > > > applications are made for considerably more than is given, and I am
> > > > > > interested to know how much the WMF requested in the first place.
> > I
> > > > > would
> > > > > > also like to know whether or not the Board was formally advised of
> > > the
> > > > > > request before it was submitted.  Since the Board must approve
> > > > acceptance
> > > > > > of any donations over $100,000 USD, it seems to be obvious that
> > they
> > > > > should
> > > > > > be consulted and possibly should actively approve any grant
> > > > applications
> > > > > > where the dollar value sought is higher than that amount.  I don't
> > > > > believe
> > > > > > the current policies require advance approval or even advance
> > > > > notification,
> > > > > > though.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Risker/Anne
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 12 February 2016 at 03:54, Gerard Meijssen <
> > > > gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hoi,
> > > > > > > I am not complaining. I point out that all this huha does not get
> > > us
> > > > > > > anywhere. I am not afraid to give an opinion and I am not afraid
> > to
> > > > be
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > contrarian when I think it makes sense. Yes, things happened that
> > > > were
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > beautiful. They are not what upset me. What upsets me is that
> > > people
> > > > > like
> > > > > > > Siko and Anna are leaving. Because they are part of "my"
> > Wikimedia
> > > > > > > Foundation. What upsets me is that I routinely use Magnus's tool
> > > and
> > > > > > > process hundreds of thousands of records and am to understand
> > that
> > > > > > official
> > > > > > > query is stunted and does not allow for this "because it was not
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > design" and it is then pointed out that it takes money to solve
> > > > this...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My point is that baying for blood is not what helps us forward.
> > > What
> > > > I
> > > > > do
> > > > > > > know is that when sheer negativity is not coupled with an ability
> > > to
> > > > > stop
> > > > > > > and move forward, we will get in a downward spiral. I fault Pine
> > > for
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > being able to stop. What I wish for is for people like Anna and
> > > Siko
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > money for our environment and not for an endowment.
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >       GerardM
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 12 February 2016 at 09:35, Michel Vuijlsteke <
> > wikipe...@zog.org
> > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Gerard,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I was waiting for this mail. For me personally, your
> > complaining
> > > is
> > > > > > > > achieving exactly the opposite of what you think.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It sounds as if you'd much rather prefer to stick your head in
> > > the
> > > > > sand
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > hope things will blow over. "Move along, nothing to see here --
> > > oh
> > > > > > look!
> > > > > > > > something positive over there!" is not going to solve anything.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Michel
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 12 February 2016 at 09:24, Gerard Meijssen <
> > > > > > gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hoi,
> > > > > > > > > Pine as you are talking about "self inflicting wounds" I take
> > > it
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > not talking in your personal capacity. When is it enough for
> > > you?
> > > > > > When
> > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > you going to talk about positive things, things that will
> > move
> > > us
> > > > > > > > forward.
> > > > > > > > > Why ask for blood and more blood? What is it that you hope to
> > > > > > achieve?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Who do you represent in this unending litany of negativity
> > and
> > > > what
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > you achieved in this way? When Lila was engaged in her role,
> > > she
> > > > > was
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > direct in a different direction and she is doing that. You
> > may
> > > > not
> > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > and that is ok.
> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > >        GerardM
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 12 February 2016 at 08:43, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Dariusz, thanks for continuing to engage here. Besides the
> > > good
> > > > > > > > questions
> > > > > > > > > > that others have asked, I'll add a few:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1. If the Knowledge Engine is such an important project,
> > why
> > > is
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > mentioned in
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2015-16
> > > > > > > > > ?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2. I realize that as a percentage of the WMF budget, $250k
> > > is a
> > > > > > > > > relatively
> > > > > > > > > > small number. As others have said, this is not a reason for
> > > > > opacity
> > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > it, nor a reason for not having a conversation with the
> > > > community
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > something so strategically important as a decision to
> > explore
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > question
> > > > > > > > > > of "Would users go to Wikipedia if it were an open channel
> > > > beyond
> > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > encyclopedia?" It's one thing to have a blue-sky exercise
> > > > > thinking
> > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > possibilities, and another thing to take a $250k step in
> > that
> > > > > > > > direction,
> > > > > > > > > > especially without consulting the community.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 3. I am getting tired about seeing bad news in general
> > about
> > > > WMF
> > > > > > > > > > governance, planning, and turnover. I am curious how you
> > plan
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > address
> > > > > > > > > > those issues. Like you, I would rather that we be talking
> > > about
> > > > > our
> > > > > > > > > > movement plans for the next 10 years. However, it's
> > difficult
> > > > to
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > > > conversations when WMF is making so many self-inflicted
> > > wounds.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > recent
> > > > > > > > > > round of resignations is of respectable people from the WMF
> > > > staff
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > making
> > > > > > > > > > the situation that much more concerning and that much more
> > > > > > difficult
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > recover from. It seems to me that WMF leadership has lost
> > > > control
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > situation, and I'd like to hear what the recovery plan is.
> > > > > > > Personally,
> > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > feel that we need leadership that can build good
> > > relationships
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > staff and community, is transparent by default, and is
> > > capable
> > > > of
> > > > > > > > > restoring
> > > > > > > > > > the credibility of the organization's planning, execution,
> > > and
> > > > > > > > goodwill.
> > > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > think that we may need new leadership to make that happen.
> > I
> > > am
> > > > > > > > > interested
> > > > > > > > > > to hear your thoughts.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Pine
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 7:32 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak <
> > > > > > > dar...@alk.edu.pl
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 11.02.2016 10:23 PM "SarahSV" <sarahsv.w...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > napisał(a):
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > ​Hi ​
> > > > > > > > > > > > Dariusz,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > ​T​
> > > > > > > > > > > > he grant application doesn't restrict the search engine
> > > to
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia
> > > > > > > > > > > projects. It says that the "Knowledge Engine by Wikipedia
> > > [is
> > > > > a]
> > > > > > > > system
> > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > discovering reliable and trustworthy public information
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > Internet.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > My understanding is that the top range could potentially
> > be
> > > > all
> > > > > > > > > > open/public
> > > > > > > > > > > resources, but this is the far stretched total goal, and
> > > > still
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > general search engine of all content including commercial
> > > > one.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > And a rrasonable realistic outcome can be just improving
> > > our
> > > > > > > searches
> > > > > > > > > > > across projects.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I can't comment on the initial ideas or goals, as I was
> > not
> > > > on
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > Board
> > > > > > > > > > > before August 2015, but this is what I understand we
> > build
> > > > now.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The document says the "Search Engine by Wikipedia"
> > budget
> > > > for
> > > > > > > > > 2015–2016
> > > > > > > > > > > ($2.4 million) was approved by the ​board. Can you point
> > us
> > > > to
> > > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > > board
> > > > > > > > > > > meeting approved it and what was discussed there?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I dont recall this specifically, and I'm going to elude
> > > this
> > > > > > > question
> > > > > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > > > > going to sleep (and hoping someone better informed may
> > > pick).
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Good night!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Dj
> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> >
> > --
> > GN.
> > President Wikimedia Australia
> > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Lila Tretikov
> Wikimedia Foundation
> 
> *“Be bold and mighty forces will come to your aid.”*
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