Thanks Moushira :-)
On 16 Mar 2016 16:55, "Moushira Elamrawy" <melamr...@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hello again,
>
> I see that we have an interesting input here.
>
> Let me add further context, not to give any excuses but to put things in
> their perspective. This has nothing do to with corporate or jargon Silicon
> Valley culture, as I simply don't live in the US, and I don't have any
> corporate background  :). I come from a design background, and while I am
> not a native English speaker, I didn't encounter any previous
> misunderstanding with using this word, in context, in the last decade, even
> with other non-native speakers.
>
> I now see the relevance of psychology in the use of the word "ideation"
> (where regardless of the article quality, we have the word used in both
> context
> <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Ideation_%28creative_process%29&limit=500
> >still)
> . Given my non-medical background, and my previous use of the word, without
> failing to deliver what I needed to express at any point earlier, I,
> therefore, made a choice to include it in my email, which I wrote by myself
> without peer review.
>
> I see the point around the Foundation's seemingly repeated pattern of using
> words (or abbreviation) that aren't widely understood outside their
> context, or by a broader audience. While this is a valid concern, I just
> wanted to point out that our case here, is a matter of me failing to choose
> a term that isn't apparently jargon, because sometimes it is tricky to
> decide.
>
> Again, this is a good lesson on the importance of simplifying and
> globalizing my choice of words (oh, globalize could be jargon..no, not
> again ;).
>
> Point taken, thanks again everyone.
>
> Moushira
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Oliver Keyes <ironho...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > While I agree with people that it's an uncommon and exclusionary
> > phrase (and a confusing one!) it seems like Moushira fully
> > acknowledges this and is going to work harder on this sort of problem
> > in the future, for which I laud her.
> >
> > If we want to have a general conversation about language choice at the
> > WMF, broadly-construed, it seems like it would be best to kick off a
> > new thread to avoid the appearance of a pileon.
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Derek V.Giroulle
> > <derekvgirou...@wikimedia.be> wrote:
> > > Hello everyone ,
> > >
> > > I agree with Fae and Craig,
> > > It's foreign jargon especially in this context , and on top of that
> > jargon
> > > form a professional background where the term has been misused (imho)
> > > It has in my jargon the connotation of obsessively recurring idea ,
> like
> > a
> > > depressed patient
> > > always coming back to ideas of suicide : the suicidal ideation
> > > It would be the only place where i would allow fosuch reductive jargon
> > > because it has precise meaning
> > > i wouls never associate it with  idea generation or brainstorming what
> is
> > > wrong with using those words
> > > as craig indicated : cringe worthy (business) jargon
> > > the mere fact that product design (business ing general) is stealing a
> > word
> > > form other jargon
> > > show a lack of creativity of innovation
> > >
> > > I would like to call on the communications dept to start  - and i can
> > just
> > > picture someone for that task - a campaign
> > > at WMF  to ban jargon  "simply says it better"
> > >
> > >
> > > derek
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 16-03-16 04:39, Craig Franklin wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi Moushira,
> > >>
> > >> The problem when you use jargon like "ideation" in this context is
> that
> > >> you're essentially excluding anyone who isn't familiar with the
> > particular
> > >> terminology used in the field.  Especially so when there are plenty of
> > >> plain-English alternatives that can be used in its place.  Note that
> > there
> > >> is a whole bunch of thought from experts that that word in particular
> > is a
> > >> particularly obnoxious piece of jargon:
> > >>
> > >> * http://money.cnn.com/2014/10/26/pf/corporate-jargon/
> > >> * https://hbr.org/2008/08/why-jargon-feeds-on-lazy-minds.html
> > >> *
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> http://www.lifed.com/10-cringeworthy-business-jargon-examples-that-should-be-banned
> > >>
> > >> It's hardly the worst example I've seen out of the WMF, but while
> we're
> > on
> > >> the topic it should be pointed out.  Just because it's used elsewhere,
> > it
> > >> doesn't mean that the WMF has to fall into the same trap.
> > >>
> > >> Cheers,
> > >> Craig
> > >>
> > >> On 16 March 2016 at 10:07, Moushira Elamrawy <melamr...@wikimedia.org
> >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hello Fae,
> > >>>
> > >>> Ideation phase [0], is a term widely used in product and design
> > context.
> > >>> Now, I see your point around how volunteers who are not related to
> > these
> > >>> fields, might not be familiar with it. Possibly something like, idea
> > >>> generation, or brainstorming could have replaced it.
> > >>>
> > >>> I am not sure though if the factors that you have listed are
> relevant;
> > I
> > >>> think it is a matter of using a word in a certain context where it
> > >>> actually
> > >>> fits, without realizing how a broader audience would perceive it.
> > >>>
> > >>> In any case, thanks for the note :-)
> > >>>
> > >>> [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideation_%28creative_process%29
> > >>>
> > >>> Moushira
> > >>>
> > >>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 1:51 AM, Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> On 15 March 2016 at 22:33, Moushira Elamrawy <
> melamr...@wikimedia.org
> > >
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>> ...
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The reading team is launching an experiment that supports early
> > >>>>
> > >>>> engagement
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> in ideation phase, with a wide variety of users.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ...
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi, sorry to target your email with a more general observation,
> > >>>> however there seems to be a lot of odd jargon in Wikimedia
> > >>>> announcements over the last few months. It would be great to see
> more
> > >>>> 'official' emails aimed at volunteers, written in plain and
> > >>>> grammatically complete English. Phrases like "ideation phase" may be
> > >>>> frequently used during meetings at the Wikimedia Foundation offices,
> > >>>> but are unlikely to be heard in real life by volunteer contributors,
> > >>>> and are unlikely to be easily understood outside of corporate
> America,
> > >>>> especially by those without English as their first language.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sorry again about picking at your announcement rather than any
> other,
> > >>>> it just stood out today.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks,
> > >>>> Fae
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > > --
> > > Kind regards,
> > > *Derek V. Giroulle*
> > > Wikimedia Belgium vzw.
> > > Treasurer
> > > Troonstraat 51 Rue du Trône, BE-1050 Brussels
> > > M: derekvgirou...@wikimedia.be
> > > T: +32 494 134134
> > > F: +32 3666 2700
> > >
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