Thanks Moushira :-) On 16 Mar 2016 16:55, "Moushira Elamrawy" <melamr...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> Hello again, > > I see that we have an interesting input here. > > Let me add further context, not to give any excuses but to put things in > their perspective. This has nothing do to with corporate or jargon Silicon > Valley culture, as I simply don't live in the US, and I don't have any > corporate background :). I come from a design background, and while I am > not a native English speaker, I didn't encounter any previous > misunderstanding with using this word, in context, in the last decade, even > with other non-native speakers. > > I now see the relevance of psychology in the use of the word "ideation" > (where regardless of the article quality, we have the word used in both > context > < > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Ideation_%28creative_process%29&limit=500 > >still) > . Given my non-medical background, and my previous use of the word, without > failing to deliver what I needed to express at any point earlier, I, > therefore, made a choice to include it in my email, which I wrote by myself > without peer review. > > I see the point around the Foundation's seemingly repeated pattern of using > words (or abbreviation) that aren't widely understood outside their > context, or by a broader audience. While this is a valid concern, I just > wanted to point out that our case here, is a matter of me failing to choose > a term that isn't apparently jargon, because sometimes it is tricky to > decide. > > Again, this is a good lesson on the importance of simplifying and > globalizing my choice of words (oh, globalize could be jargon..no, not > again ;). > > Point taken, thanks again everyone. > > Moushira > > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Oliver Keyes <ironho...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > While I agree with people that it's an uncommon and exclusionary > > phrase (and a confusing one!) it seems like Moushira fully > > acknowledges this and is going to work harder on this sort of problem > > in the future, for which I laud her. > > > > If we want to have a general conversation about language choice at the > > WMF, broadly-construed, it seems like it would be best to kick off a > > new thread to avoid the appearance of a pileon. > > > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Derek V.Giroulle > > <derekvgirou...@wikimedia.be> wrote: > > > Hello everyone , > > > > > > I agree with Fae and Craig, > > > It's foreign jargon especially in this context , and on top of that > > jargon > > > form a professional background where the term has been misused (imho) > > > It has in my jargon the connotation of obsessively recurring idea , > like > > a > > > depressed patient > > > always coming back to ideas of suicide : the suicidal ideation > > > It would be the only place where i would allow fosuch reductive jargon > > > because it has precise meaning > > > i wouls never associate it with idea generation or brainstorming what > is > > > wrong with using those words > > > as craig indicated : cringe worthy (business) jargon > > > the mere fact that product design (business ing general) is stealing a > > word > > > form other jargon > > > show a lack of creativity of innovation > > > > > > I would like to call on the communications dept to start - and i can > > just > > > picture someone for that task - a campaign > > > at WMF to ban jargon "simply says it better" > > > > > > > > > derek > > > > > > > > > > > > On 16-03-16 04:39, Craig Franklin wrote: > > >> > > >> Hi Moushira, > > >> > > >> The problem when you use jargon like "ideation" in this context is > that > > >> you're essentially excluding anyone who isn't familiar with the > > particular > > >> terminology used in the field. Especially so when there are plenty of > > >> plain-English alternatives that can be used in its place. Note that > > there > > >> is a whole bunch of thought from experts that that word in particular > > is a > > >> particularly obnoxious piece of jargon: > > >> > > >> * http://money.cnn.com/2014/10/26/pf/corporate-jargon/ > > >> * https://hbr.org/2008/08/why-jargon-feeds-on-lazy-minds.html > > >> * > > >> > > >> > > > http://www.lifed.com/10-cringeworthy-business-jargon-examples-that-should-be-banned > > >> > > >> It's hardly the worst example I've seen out of the WMF, but while > we're > > on > > >> the topic it should be pointed out. Just because it's used elsewhere, > > it > > >> doesn't mean that the WMF has to fall into the same trap. > > >> > > >> Cheers, > > >> Craig > > >> > > >> On 16 March 2016 at 10:07, Moushira Elamrawy <melamr...@wikimedia.org > > > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Hello Fae, > > >>> > > >>> Ideation phase [0], is a term widely used in product and design > > context. > > >>> Now, I see your point around how volunteers who are not related to > > these > > >>> fields, might not be familiar with it. Possibly something like, idea > > >>> generation, or brainstorming could have replaced it. > > >>> > > >>> I am not sure though if the factors that you have listed are > relevant; > > I > > >>> think it is a matter of using a word in a certain context where it > > >>> actually > > >>> fits, without realizing how a broader audience would perceive it. > > >>> > > >>> In any case, thanks for the note :-) > > >>> > > >>> [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideation_%28creative_process%29 > > >>> > > >>> Moushira > > >>> > > >>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 1:51 AM, Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> On 15 March 2016 at 22:33, Moushira Elamrawy < > melamr...@wikimedia.org > > > > > >>>> wrote: > > >>>> ... > > >>>>> > > >>>>> The reading team is launching an experiment that supports early > > >>>> > > >>>> engagement > > >>>>> > > >>>>> in ideation phase, with a wide variety of users. > > >>>> > > >>>> ... > > >>>> > > >>>> Hi, sorry to target your email with a more general observation, > > >>>> however there seems to be a lot of odd jargon in Wikimedia > > >>>> announcements over the last few months. It would be great to see > more > > >>>> 'official' emails aimed at volunteers, written in plain and > > >>>> grammatically complete English. Phrases like "ideation phase" may be > > >>>> frequently used during meetings at the Wikimedia Foundation offices, > > >>>> but are unlikely to be heard in real life by volunteer contributors, > > >>>> and are unlikely to be easily understood outside of corporate > America, > > >>>> especially by those without English as their first language. > > >>>> > > >>>> Sorry again about picking at your announcement rather than any > other, > > >>>> it just stood out today. > > >>>> > > >>>> Thanks, > > >>>> Fae > > >>>> -- > > >>>> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae > > >>>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > >>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >>>> Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > , > > >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >>> Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > >>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > >>> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > , > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Kind regards, > > > *Derek V. Giroulle* > > > Wikimedia Belgium vzw. > > > Treasurer > > > Troonstraat 51 Rue du Trône, BE-1050 Brussels > > > M: derekvgirou...@wikimedia.be > > > T: +32 494 134134 > > > F: +32 3666 2700 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
