Hoi,
So what are you saying? It is ok for people to do dastardly things and
abuse Commons and it is even worse when people at Commons use the
environment they know, the Internet, to do some research and expose what
they find?

Really? And I must be impressed when Mr Kolbe asks attention for it??
Because what! It a Dutch proverb the best sailors are ashore. The same can
be said by Mr Kolbe who is proficient in telling other people what to do
and why he objects. That is his prerogative as it is mine to be
underwhelmed.

Be serious. When issues arise, we may work towards an understanding and a
solution and sometimes hands get dirty. I will always support people who
actually make a meaningful difference over people who cannot be faulted.
Mistakes are made and when that is a problem go elsewhere. When there is a
meaningful discussion anything is on the cards. So far this is not one.
Thanks,
       GerarddM

On 24 March 2016 at 09:04, David Emrany <david.emr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Gerard
>
> Correspondingly, what I find unconscionable for us is that a small
> group of Commons editors /admins congregated on the talk page of
> 'Teles' and discussed how to secretly spy on these new Zeropaid
> enabled editors and monitor their Facebook-basic pages [1], [2].
>
> IMO had this been more widely discussed at Commons seeking solutions,
> we would not be seeing unfortunate news articles like the one Andreas
> Kolbe has linked to
>
> Regards
>
> Dave
>
> [1]
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ATeles&type=revision&diff=168565809&oldid=168565337&uselang=en
>
> [2]
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Teles/Angola_Facebook_Case&oldid=168514640
>
> On 3/20/16, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hoi,
> > Realistically. Wikipedia is very much an enabler.
> >
> > Your ease to consider "simply" disabling mobile edits or uploads I find
> > appalling. People in countries like USA or UK are very fortunate. Nobody
> > would ever argue to disable their edits or uploads. At the same time as a
> > movement we desperately need more and more diverse involvement. While you
> > may say what you want, it is unconscionable for us to do as you suggest
> as
> > it is fully contrary to what we aim to achieve.
> >
> > What we are experiencing is a bump in the road. We have to deal with it
> but
> > throwing the baby with the washing water? REALLY !!
> > Thanks,
> >       GerardM
> >
> > On 19 March 2016 at 15:03, David Emrany <david.emr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Adele
> >>
> >> Can we have a clear picture of Wikimedia's ‘complicated’ relationship
> >> with net neutrality - 1year on from the Washington Post story [1]
> >>
> >> Can we also have specific figures on how much of WMF's traffic has
> >> been lost / gained from key markets in Latin America and Asia after
> >> regulators have blocked zeropaid schemes due to local concerns.
> >>
> >> WMF's "complicated" stance has also turned off many like-minded
> >> support groups who stand for pure net neutrality - and not WMF's or
> >> Facebook's ersatz versions [2]
> >>
> >> Lastly, if the primary aim of Wikipedia Zero is to gain readership,
> >> why not simply disable all mobile edits / uploads from these accounts.
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >> [1]
> >>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/11/25/wikipedias-complicated-relationship-with-net-neutrality/
> >>
> >> [2]
> >>
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/08/01/wikipedia-zero-and-net-neutrality-protecting-the-internet/
> >>
> >> On 3/19/16, Adele Vrana <avr...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> >> > Hi Teles,
> >> >
> >> > As the head of the Wikipedia Zero program, I would like to respond and
> >> > provide more context to the important challenges you are bringing up.
> >> >
> >> > Last year, the Foundation increased our security and privacy by
> >> > requiring
> >> > HTTPS to access all Wikimedia projects. That change has greatly
> impacted
> >> > the Wikipedia Zero program, and most importantly has also allowed
> >> > editing
> >> > (and not only reading) and extended the scope of zero-rated access
> from
> >> > just Wikipedia to all Wikimedia projects. However, our banners do not
> >> > reflect this additional zero-rating, but still only appear on
> Wikipedia.
> >> >
> >> > In your message you highlight two main concerns. One would be the
> upload
> >> of
> >> > copyrighted materials and overall abuse on Commons. The other concern
> >> > regards how the editing community should deal with an influx of new
> good
> >> > faith edits and potential editors in Portuguese, with particular
> >> challenge
> >> > of the extra work this causes for existing community members.
> >> >
> >> > Regarding Commons, we have experienced abuse from a few subscribers
> of a
> >> > Zero partner in Angola. Typically what happens is that the pirates
> >> > upload
> >> > copyrighted movies to Commons either directly or in a concealed form
> >> (like
> >> > huge/split PDFs or JPEGs). Then they promote the links on Facebook or
> a
> >> > similar public forum for others to download. When partners become
> aware
> >> of
> >> > this they have flagged it to us and we've, in turn, flagged it to
> >> Community
> >> > Engagement who has worked with editors to try and make sure it's
> >> > removed.
> >> >
> >> > We agree that this is not an ideal way to handle this problem, and we
> >> would
> >> > prefer to catch it much earlier or simply prevent it outright (without
> >> > significant limits being placed on good faith editors). Last fall, we
> >> > had
> >> > internal discussions on finding technical solutions for this problem.
> >> > However, we discovered that we could not widely identify traffic from
> >> zero
> >> > rated partners, and that ability was a prerequisite to address this
> >> issue.
> >> > As of December 2015, the Ops team was able to complete that work.
> >> >
> >> > With this task completed, our team, in coordination with community
> >> > engagement and engineering is working on finding the best approach to
> >> > resolve this issue. Do you have suggestions or guidance? We are eager
> to
> >> > examine multiple approaches and this is a great time to open the
> >> > discussion. As we evaluate different approaches, we can also update
> you
> >> and
> >> > the list here.
> >> >
> >> > On the editing topic, the primary goal of Wikipedia Zero is to
> increase
> >> > readership. This is measured in potential reach (through subscriber
> >> counts)
> >> > and pageviews within regions with Wikipedia Zero partnerships.
> There’s
> >> not
> >> > enough information to show that Zero can also increase editorship, but
> >> > it
> >> > is something we believe is furthered by expanding reading access. So
> if
> >> > that is what is happening in Angola, we see that is a great thing.
> >> >
> >> > However, we understand that it’s challenging for our existing editing
> >> > community to handle a sudden influx of new editors. This seems to be a
> >> > crucial and important conversation for the movement at large to have.
> I
> >> > hope we can figure out a way to turn this moment in Angola into an
> >> > opportunity to learn how to deal with new readers and editors.
> >> >
> >> > Best regards,
> >> > Adele
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> some of the issue stems form the copyright laws of Angola, which are
> >> >> really
> >> >> interesting to read -- read them in english --
> >> >> https://www.copyright-watch.org/files/Angola.pdf  of course I dont
> >> expect
> >> >> people to know their copyright laws in detail or to have read them
> but
> >> >> they
> >> >> do know the principles of it and what they can do
> >> >>
> >> >> some points of interest
> >> >>
> >> >>    - Non protected works Article  9 section c -- news of the day
> >> published
> >> >>    by the press or broadcast
> >> >>    - Chapter IV Uses lawful without Authorisation article 29 section
> b
> >> >> -
> >> >>    reproduction by photographic process or process analogous to
> >> >> photographic
> >> >>    process by <snip> documentation centres <snip> or teaching
> >> >> organisations
> >> >>    ..... refers to minimum amount of copies necessary, but wither way
> >> >>    Wikipedia would fall into either of these definitions as permitted
> >> >> to
> >> >>    reproduce
> >> >>    - article 30 - is the key here it enables translation into
> >> >> Portuguese
> >> >>    after 3 years without any real restrictions - hence why the
> pt.wikis
> >> >> are
> >> >>    having so much of an issue and by extension commons where they
> >> >> encourage
> >> >>    uploading of media
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Wikipedia zero implementation needs to also consider the implication
> of
> >> >> local laws especially copyright on the projects where the laws are
> this
> >> >> outdated and effectively enable copyright issues then WP Zero could
> >> >> provide
> >> >> a read only option for IP's or a no upload option,  with a rights
> >> request
> >> >> process on commons
> >> >>
> >> >> On 19 March 2016 at 00:45, Lucas Teles <telesw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Hi, everyone.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It is being recently reported on Portuguese Wikipedia and Commons
> (at
> >> >> > least) the increasing ammount of improper editing coming from IP
> >> >> addresses
> >> >> > located in Angola. Some users believe that this may be related with
> >> >> > Wikipedia Zero and a partnership between WMF and a cellphone
> company
> >> [1]
> >> >> > that allows reading and editing at free cost.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > One of the first reactions to that is a large range block that was
> >> just
> >> >> set
> >> >> > on Commons in order to prevent these edits [2], as they are being
> >> >> > done
> >> >> in a
> >> >> > way that volunteers can't handle.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > That seems to be some kind of "second wave" as the first that hit
> >> >> > Commons
> >> >> > [3] had been already reported months ago [4] and seemed to be
> >> controled
> >> >> or
> >> >> > just paused for a while. On Portuguese Wikipedia, one thing that
> >> seemss
> >> >> to
> >> >> > be clear is that edits are done in good faith. However, they end by
> >> >> > being
> >> >> > undone as they are incorrect for some reason, whether being pages
> of
> >> >> files
> >> >> > about themselves or just test edits. One of the users identified
> >> >> > actually
> >> >> > confirm [5] that he is editing through Wikipedia Zero.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Concerning that more partnerships may occur in future, I think it
> is
> >> >> > time
> >> >> > for us to start talking about ways of dealing with that, other than
> >> >> > blocking. Sadly, I don't have an answer to that problem, but I tend
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > believe that some way of mass reaching these potential users should
> >> >> > be
> >> >> made
> >> >> > out.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The current process is that editors will be the ones to notice that
> >> (as
> >> >> > I
> >> >> > am not aware of any kind of follow up by WMF on that) and they will
> >> try
> >> >> to
> >> >> > solve their way, which may cause too many collateral damage.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I wonder if there is any kind of way to diminish the problem, by
> >> >> > using
> >> >> any
> >> >> > off-wiki strategy.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Kind regards.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Teles
> >> >> >
> >> >> > [1] -
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> http://www.telecompaper.com/news/movicel-offers-free-access-to-wikipedia--1116012
> >> >> > [2] -
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Steinsplitter&oldid=190598884#Unblock
> >> >> > [3] -
> >> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Teles/Angola_Facebook_Case
> >> >> > [4] -
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Forum&oldid=12835750#Wikipedia_Zero_being_used_to_violate_copyright
> >> >> > [5] -
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> https://pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Usu%C3%A1rio_Discuss%C3%A3o:Darwinius&diff=prev&oldid=45095087
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > *Lucas Teles*
> >> >> >
> >> >> > *+55 (71) 98290 7553Steward at Wikimedia Foundation. Administrator
> *
> >> >> > *at Portuguese Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons.*- wikipedista.com
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
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> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> GN.
> >> >> President Wikimedia Australia
> >> >> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> >> >> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> >> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > *Adele Vrana*
> >> > *Strategic Partnerships*
> >> > Wikimedia Foundation
> >> > +1 (415) 839-6885 ext. 6773
> >> > avr...@wikimedia.org
> >> >
> >> > *Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
> >> the
> >> > sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment. Donate.
> >> > <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>*
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