I agree with this. A permanently visible but reasonably small and unobtrusive 
edit button that opens into visual editor could be a way to do this.
Cheers,
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of 
Gerard Meijssen
Sent: Thursday, 31 March 2016 5:08 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikiwand

Hoi,
When we recognise that an editor has different needs we should provide editors 
with different tools. Readers in turn do not need all the tools of editors but 
we do want to convert them to editors. It does not follow that they will be 
enticed to become one by all the clutter.

The objective is therefore to invite them in a less cluttered way and give them 
the option to enable the "clutter" an editor needs. This can be done in 
different ways.. It just takes the recognition what it is we want and need and 
that one size fits all is plain stupid.
Thanks,
       GerardM



On 31 March 2016 at 16:52, WereSpielChequers <werespielchequ...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I don't know about the WMF's position re Wikiwand, but I see Wikiwand 
> as a more reader friendly way to view Wikipedia. We have far more 
> readers than editors so in some sense this is a good thing. I can 
> understand a reader being more interested in seeing the table of 
> contents in the left hand margin than a bunch of links to "recent 
> changes" and even "what links here". But the more you hide the various 
> functions that are of interest to editors the more difficult it 
> becomes to recruit editors from amongst our readership, and in the 
> long run without new editors we can't maintain the site. Despite many 
> attempts we don't yet have a viable alternative way of recruiting new 
> editors other than the edit buttons on our sites, so any attempt to 
> make the editing features less obvious is a threat to our future
>
> The problem is that most designers don't like clutter, and to a non 
> editor many of the bits of the interface that are most useful to 
> editors are clutter. I'm not sure what the solution is to this. One 
> possibility would be a more gradualised interface, one that always 
> shows you one or more editing options than you have used, and ideally 
> different ones or in different form so you notice them. I seem to 
> remember some successful tests a while back that simply modified the 
> edit button to make it more prominent or even just different. In 
> theory simply changing the edit button to so that for a month IPs see 
> it as  "fix this" or "correct an error" should stop people mentally blanking 
> the edit button out as part of the furniture.
>
> We also have a problem that some of our metrics value visits to 
> Wikimedia sites above viewing Wikimedia content on mirrors such as 
> WikiWand. We've had a similar problem in the GLAM program trying to 
> convince museums etc that such a view is illogical and if your mission 
> is to make content available to all humanity you should value hits to 
> your content on mirrors equally to hits to that same content on your 
> own website. Hopefully it is just a historic problem that will recede 
> as it becomes easier to get metrics that include mirrors, but it is a 
> barrier that prevents some GLAMS from sharing media onto Wikimedia 
> Commons and hugely ironic that we have the problem ourselves in our own 
> metrics.
>
>
> Jonathan / WereSpielChequers
>
>
>
>
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 08:39:46 +0200
> > From: Anders Wennersten <m...@anderswennersten.se>
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Wikiwand
> > Message-ID: <56fcc632.2090...@anderswennersten.se>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
> >
> > What is WMFs position on Wikiwand [1]?
> >
> > is it a complement or a commercial run interface that is  better 
> > that we can offer?
> >
> > Anders
> >
> > [1] http://www.wikiwand.com/about
> >
> >
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