Just for the record, I raised the conflict of interest issue with Denny in more than one venue - a Signpost discussion and (I think) here, and I discussed it in other places. I never suggested he was a mole for Google and I'm not aware of anyone who did - though I may have missed or forgotten.
Google's "info boxes" and their answers at the top of their results, we're all agreed now, I think, are impacting Wikipedia's page views and, consequently, our ability to raise funds and recruit new volunteers. This was described by Jimmy as an existential threat to the movement recently. Denny is involved in those aspects of Google's operations. This is a profound conflict of interest. Denny is also a main thought leader behind Wikidata, and will have serious biases concerning its priority. These interests and involvements (Wikidata and Google) are a good fit with each other and we're lucky to have someone with Denny's ability and integrity bridging the two. But it's just untenable for him to sit on the board of trustees while he's in those roles. Anthony Cole On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 4:59 AM, Andrea Zanni <zanni.andre...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>I feel that Denny's decision to resign makes sense, and in no way does > this > >>>decision put a cloud over his continued involvement in our community. > > Pine, > I don't necessarily disagree with you, > but you are doing a very common mistake in the Wikimedia world: > you are not taking into account people's emotions. > Making an hard decision always takes its toll, and it's all but granted > that someone wants to stay > in the same community that lacked trust in him and stressed him out for > weeks. > I personally trusted him, I felt the pain in his messages to this list in > the last months, and I'm sad he has to leave > from what I thought was an important decisive role. > > Aubrey > > > > On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 9:12 AM, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Brill, > > > > Speaking generally (meaning, not in regard to the specific situation of > > Denny), conflict of interest issues do happen on a regular basis. In my > > experience, we also generally handle them well. > > > > Having numerous business relationships and interests is common in the > > business world. Many times when there is a conflict of interest issue, > it's > > sufficient to recuse from particular discussions. Sometimes, the best > > course of action is to resign from one role or another. > > > > Regarding Denny's situation specifically, after leaving the WMF board, he > > may provide valuable input and may in some ways be more effective because > > he will have stepped away from numerous COI issues. > > > > I feel that Denny's decision to resign makes sense, and in no way does > this > > decision put a cloud over his continued involvement in our community. > > > > There are many problems in the Wikimedia universe, but I think that our > COI > > policies are generally sound. > > > > Pine > > > > > > > > On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 6:48 AM, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > I find this issue of Conflict of Interest exceedingly problematic. > > > > > > Almost every person working and living today will have a conflict of > > > interest somehow, especially as one becomes a contributor to any of the > > > Wikimedia projects, gets to know people, tries to organize events or > > > promote the value of Wikipedia, Wikimedia, etc. Or if you work in any > > field > > > that specializes in anything online or technical. It is an impossible > > > situation. > > > > > > I think that Wikimedia deals with this very badly -- and obviously at > > great > > > personal cost to talented, giving people. I am sorry. > > > > > > And to the bigger problem: Wikimedia loses a smart person who has loads > > of > > > ideas and expertise -- and is a contributor to Wikidata (one of the > best > > & > > > most exciting projects to be visited upon Wikimedia) because of this > > arcane > > > and quite frankly needing to be re-evaluated rule? I see this as one of > > the > > > many problems of Wikimedia. > > > > > > EVERYONE has conflict of interest. We need the smartest and brightest > > minds > > > out there to contribute whatever they willingly can and will do on a > > > volunteer basis. How can they not have connections to the real world as > > > well as to online? Do we expect volunteers to be in their bunkers > > > somewhere, siloed from the world, that these clean folks are the ones > to > > > move Wikimedia forward? It's laughable. > > > > > > One thing Wikimedia seems to do quite well is torture people who want > to > > > contribute by rules and policies that I think, quite frankly, are > > > unworkable. > > > > > > Requiring some sort of absolute clean Conflict of Interest is an > > impossible > > > ideal. It is also obviously hurting the community. > > > > > > There is much change happening. I think it's an opportunity for newbies > > > such as myself as well as folks with longer views to make things > better. > > Or > > > these mistakes will continue to plague the Wikimedia community -- and > we > > > will all lose out. > > > > > > - Erika > > > *Erika Herzog* > > > Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle* < > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 2:28 AM, Gerard Meijssen < > > gerard.meijs...@gmail.com > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hoi, > > > > Denny I am sorry to have lost a friend who is on the board but I am > > happy > > > > to welcome back a friend who can now express his ideas, his notions, > > his > > > > opposition, his point of view. Yes you work for Google. For me it > means > > > > that you are again in an unique position to be an ambassador for both > > > > Google and WMF in either domain. > > > > > > > > You may have gained friends while on the board, the one sad thing is > > that > > > > it came at a huge cost to you personally. Nevermind what you do, I > > trust > > > > you to do well. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Gerard > > > > > > > > On 8 April 2016 at 20:17, Denny Vrandecic <dvrande...@wikimedia.org> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I exchanged a walk on part in the war for a lead role in the cage. > > > > > > > > > > I find myself tied and limited in my actions and projects. In order > > to > > > > > avoid the perception or potential for Conflict of Interests I have > to > > > act > > > > > extremely carefully in far too many parts of my life. Instead of > > being > > > > able > > > > > to pursue my projects or some projects at work - which I think > would > > > > align > > > > > very well with our mission - I found myself trapped between too > many > > > > > constraints. I feel like I cannot offer my thoughts and my > > > considerations > > > > > openly, since they might easily be perceived as expressions of > > > interests > > > > - > > > > > regarding my previous work, regarding my friends, regarding my > > current > > > > > employment. > > > > > > > > > > This hit home strongly during the FDC deliberations, where I had to > > > deal > > > > > with the situation of people deliberating a proposal written by my > > Best > > > > > Man, around a project that has consumed the best part of the > previous > > > > > decade of my life. Obviously, I explained the conflicts in this > case, > > > and > > > > > refrained from participating in the discussion, as agreed with the > > FDC. > > > > > > > > > > This hit home every time there was a topic that might be perceived > > as a > > > > > potential conflict of interest between Wikimedia and my employer, > and > > > > even > > > > > though I might have been in a unique position to provide insight, I > > had > > > > to > > > > > refrain from doing so in order not to exert influence. > > > > > > > > > > There were constant and continuous attacks against me, as being > > merely > > > > > Google’s mole on the Board, even of the election being bought by > > > Google. > > > > I > > > > > would not have minded these attacks so much - if I would have had > the > > > > > feeling that my input to the Board, based on my skills and > > experiences, > > > > > would have been particularly valuable, or if I would have had the > > > feeling > > > > > of getting anything done while being on the Board. As it is, > neither > > > was > > > > > the case. > > > > > > > > > > I discussed with Jan-Bart, then chair, what is and what is not > > > > appropriate > > > > > to pursue as a member of the Board. I understood and followed his > > > advice, > > > > > but it was frustrating. It was infuriatingly limiting. > > > > > > > > > > As some of you might know, Wikidata was for me just one step > towards > > my > > > > > actual goal, a fully multilingual Wikipedia. I hoped that as a > > Trustee > > > I > > > > > could pursue that goal, but when even writing a comment on a bug in > > > > > Phabricator has to be considered under the aspect that it will be > > read > > > as > > > > > "it is a Board-member writing that comment" and/or “It’s a Googler > > > > writing > > > > > that comment”, I don’t see how I could effectively pursue such a > > goal. > > > > > > > > > > It was at Wikimania 2006 in Boston, when Markus Krötzsch and I had > > > lunch > > > > > with Dan Connolly, a co-editor of the early HTML specs. Dan gave me > > an > > > > > advise that still rings with me - to do the things worth doing that > > > only > > > > > you can do. This set me, back then, on a path that eventually lead > to > > > the > > > > > creation of Wikidata - which, before then, wasn't something I > wanted > > to > > > > do > > > > > myself. I used to think that merely suggesting it would be enough - > > > > someone > > > > > will eventually do it, I don’t have to. There’s plenty of committed > > and > > > > > smart people at the Foundation, they’ll make it happen. Heck, Erik > > was > > > > back > > > > > then a supporter of the plan (he was the one to secure the domain > > > > > wikidata.org), and he was deputy director. Things were bound to > > happen > > > > > anyway. But that is not what happened. I eventually, half a decade > > > later, > > > > > realized that if I do not do it, it simply won't happen, at least > not > > > in > > > > a > > > > > reasonable timeframe. > > > > > > > > > > And as said, Wikidata was just one step on the way. But right now I > > > > cannot > > > > > take the next steps. Anything that I would do or propose or suggest > > > will > > > > be > > > > > regarded through the lense of my current positions. To be fair, I > do > > > see > > > > > that I should not be both the one suggesting changes, and the one > > > > deciding > > > > > on them. I understand now that I could not have suggested Wikidata > > as a > > > > > member of the Board. It takes an independent Board to evaluate such > > > > > proposal and its virtues and decide on them. > > > > > > > > > > I want to send a few thank yous, in particular to the teams at the > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation and at Google who helped me steer clear of > > actual > > > > > conflicts of interests. They were wonderful, and extremely helpful. > > It > > > > > bears a certain irony that both organizations had strong measures > > > against > > > > > exactly the kind of things that I have been regularly accused of. > > > > > > > > > > I only see three ways to stay clear from a perceived or potential > > > > Conflict > > > > > of Interest: to lay still and do nothing, to remove the source of > the > > > > > Conflict, or to step away from the position of power. Since the > first > > > > > option is unsatisfying, the second option unavailable, only the > third > > > > > option remains. > > > > > > > > > > So I have decided to resign from the Board of Trustees. > > > > > > > > > > It was not an easy decision, and certainly not a step made any > easier > > > by > > > > > the events in the last few months. I understand that I will > > disappoint > > > > many > > > > > of the people who voted for me, and I want to apologize: I am > sorry, > > > > > honestly sorry, but I don’t see that it is me the Board needs now, > or > > > > that > > > > > the movement needs me in that position. What I learned is that the > > > > profile > > > > > that allows someone to win an election is not the profile that > makes > > an > > > > > effective Trustee. > > > > > > > > > > But be warned that you will continue to hear from me, after a > > > wikibreak. > > > > > Expect crazy ideas, project proposals, and requests to fund and > > > implement > > > > > them. I will return to a more active role within the movement. I > will > > > be, > > > > > again, free to work on things that are worth doing and that only I > > can > > > > do. > > > > > I think that in that role I can be more effective and more valuable > > to > > > > the > > > > > movement, the Foundation, and for our mission. > > > > > > > > > > Be bold, > > > > > Denny > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
