"it is not so much the words that are used but it is understanding what points are made and how they challenge the status quo."
--> This may be true, and what we should strive for as a movement. But you still need words to make those points, and while one may fail to understand what points are being made, even if all the words are understood properly, the opposite makes the difference. If you _don't_ understand the words in the first place, i. e. attribute a different meaning than the speaker/author had intended, you _cannot_ be in a position to understand the points. So, thanks Nick, for sharing! I like your post very much. Michael Am 07.07.2016 9:35 vorm. schrieb "Gerard Meijssen" < gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>: > Hoi, > I have been thinking about what you say. The problem I see is that your > attitude is one where you have to be compassionate for the benefit of > people for whom English is a second language. What this means is that you > see yourself as superior because your English is so great and they have a > problem with English or Anglo culture.The logical conclusion is probably > that English and Angloism has to be central to what we do. > > This is the Wikimedia list and when you follow this list, it is people from > all over the world that subscribe and comment. It is highly biased by group > think and I have observed that there is little willingness to consider > notions that do not fit in well with the group think.The biggest problem in > this is not language but an unwillingness to consider arguments. > > It is easy to say "we have to be compassionate" and because of that we have > to choose our words well. It is tough to consider that it is not so much > the words that are used but it is understanding what points are made and > how they challenge the status quo. > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 5 July 2016 at 21:59, Nick Wilson (Quiddity) <nwil...@wikimedia.org> > wrote: > > > > > > https://medium.com/@mollyclare/taming-the-steamroller-how-to-communicate-compassionately-with-non-native-english-speakers-d95d8d1845a0 > > A good essay. > > > > TL;DR: Some detailed examples of how to improve communication and > > interactions, for the benefit of anyone who uses English as a second > > language. > > > > > > Excerpts, to whet [sharpen or stimulate] your appetite: > > > > > Phrasal verbs in English can be particularly hard to master. Just think > > about “cut off” vs. “cut up” vs. “cut over” vs. “cut in” vs. “cut out” > vs. > > “cut down” vs. “cut back” and you’ll see how confusing it can be when you > > recommend “cutting back” on something, or asking someone to “cut it out”. > > [...] > > > > > Make your message very clear, especially your request. This is doubly > > true for me, because I work with Germans, who are famously direct. The > > American habit of softening and burying a request is just confusing and > > pointless to them. > > > > > The last thing you and I want to do is overwhelm. We work across > language > > barriers, not because it’s glamorous or fun or easy, but because we care > > about collaborating with people who are different from us [...]. And > > non-native speakers are committing to this collaboration even more than > we > > are: they’re reaching out to us by working in English. [...] > > > > n.b. Yes, there are some over-generalizations and stereotypes in there. > > It's still good overall, though! ;-) > > > > > > I'd like to link it on Metawiki, but I'm not sure where; Any suggestions? > > I've gotten (happily) lost in the [[Multilingual]] disambig page, and the > > [[Grants:Learning patterns]] pages, but the only place I can find that > > collects advice like this, is the first section at > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/Manual#Guidelines - What page > > might I have missed? > > > > Quiddity > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > New messages to: Wikimediafirstname.lastname@example.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > New messages to: Wikimediaemail@example.com > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimediafirstname.lastname@example.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>