I have a similar feeling while reading this article: the author has the best intentions but her attitude in doing them is way so wrong.

Vito


Il 07/07/2016 10:32, Bence Damokos ha scritto:
Gerard,
I for one do not really understand the point you are making..., especially
as it relates to best practices in communicating across cultures and
linguistic backgrounds.


Best regards,
Bence

On Thursday, 7 July 2016, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hoi,
You forget the other part that is so vital. Compassion is for the weak, it
puts you in a superior position. The problem is much more in the
understanding of what someone else has to say. It is not only about
sending, it is as much about receiving. Listening, understanding is where
we have a problem. Not so much in the choice of words.
Thanks,
        GerardM

On 7 July 2016 at 09:50, Michael Jahn <michael.j...@wikimedia.de
<javascript:;>> wrote:

"it is not so much
the words that are used but it is understanding what points are made and
how they challenge the status quo."

--> This may be true, and what we should strive for as a movement. But
you
still need words to make those points, and while one may fail to
understand
what points are being made, even if all the words are understood
properly,
the opposite makes the difference. If you _don't_ understand the words in
the first place, i. e. attribute a different meaning than the
speaker/author had intended, you _cannot_ be in a position to understand
the points.
So, thanks Nick, for sharing! I like your post very much.
Michael
Am 07.07.2016 9:35 vorm. schrieb "Gerard Meijssen" <
gerard.meijs...@gmail.com <javascript:;>>:

Hoi,
I have been thinking about what you say. The problem I see is that your
attitude is one where you have to be compassionate for the benefit of
people for whom English is a second language. What this means is that
you
see yourself as superior because your English is so great and they
have a
problem with English or Anglo culture.The logical conclusion is
probably
that English and Angloism has to be central to what we do.

This is the Wikimedia list and when you follow this list, it is people
from
all over the world that subscribe and comment. It is highly biased by
group
think and I have observed that there is little willingness to consider
notions that do not fit in well with the group think.The biggest
problem
in
this is not language but an unwillingness to consider arguments.

It is easy to say "we have to be compassionate" and because of that we
have
to choose our words well. It is tough to consider that it is not so
much
the words that are used but it is understanding what points are made
and
how they challenge the status quo.
Thanks,
       GerardM

On 5 July 2016 at 21:59, Nick Wilson (Quiddity) <nwil...@wikimedia.org
<javascript:;>>
wrote:


https://medium.com/@mollyclare/taming-the-steamroller-how-to-communicate-compassionately-with-non-native-english-speakers-d95d8d1845a0
A good essay.

TL;DR: Some detailed examples of how to improve communication and
interactions, for the benefit of anyone who uses English as a second
language.


Excerpts, to whet [sharpen or stimulate] your appetite:

Phrasal verbs in English can be particularly hard to master. Just
think
about “cut off” vs. “cut up” vs. “cut over” vs. “cut in” vs. “cut
out”
vs.
“cut down” vs. “cut back” and you’ll see how confusing it can be when
you
recommend “cutting back” on something, or asking someone to “cut it
out”.
[...]

Make your message very clear, especially your request. This is
doubly
true for me, because I work with Germans, who are famously direct.
The
American habit of softening and burying a request is just confusing
and
pointless to them.

The last thing you and I want to do is overwhelm. We work across
language
barriers, not because it’s glamorous or fun or easy, but because we
care
about collaborating with people who are different from us [...]. And
non-native speakers are committing to this collaboration even more
than
we
are: they’re reaching out to us by working in English. [...]

n.b. Yes, there are some over-generalizations and stereotypes in
there.
It's still good overall, though! ;-)


I'd like to link it on Metawiki, but I'm not sure where; Any
suggestions?
I've gotten (happily) lost in the [[Multilingual]] disambig page, and
the
[[Grants:Learning patterns]] pages, but the only place I can find
that
collects advice like this, is the first section at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/Manual#Guidelines - What
page
might I have missed?

Quiddity
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