Hoi,
My native language is not English, my culture is not Anglocentric and I
hate to be patronised. If that is best practice, you can enshrine it and
not get a message out, your arguments heard and more importantly not hear
what others are saying.
Thanks,
     GerardM

On 7 July 2016 at 10:32, Bence Damokos <bdamo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Gerard,
> I for one do not really understand the point you are making..., especially
> as it relates to best practices in communicating across cultures and
> linguistic backgrounds.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Bence
>
> On Thursday, 7 July 2016, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hoi,
> > You forget the other part that is so vital. Compassion is for the weak,
> it
> > puts you in a superior position. The problem is much more in the
> > understanding of what someone else has to say. It is not only about
> > sending, it is as much about receiving. Listening, understanding is where
> > we have a problem. Not so much in the choice of words.
> > Thanks,
> >        GerardM
> >
> > On 7 July 2016 at 09:50, Michael Jahn <michael.j...@wikimedia.de
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > > "it is not so much
> > > the words that are used but it is understanding what points are made
> and
> > > how they challenge the status quo."
> > >
> > > --> This may be true, and what we should strive for as a movement. But
> > you
> > > still need words to make those points, and while one may fail to
> > understand
> > > what points are being made, even if all the words are understood
> > properly,
> > > the opposite makes the difference. If you _don't_ understand the words
> in
> > > the first place, i. e. attribute a different meaning than the
> > > speaker/author had intended, you _cannot_ be in a position to
> understand
> > > the points.
> > > So, thanks Nick, for sharing! I like your post very much.
> > > Michael
> > > Am 07.07.2016 9:35 vorm. schrieb "Gerard Meijssen" <
> > > gerard.meijs...@gmail.com <javascript:;>>:
> > >
> > > > Hoi,
> > > > I have been thinking about what you say. The problem I see is that
> your
> > > > attitude is one where you have to be compassionate for the benefit of
> > > > people for whom English is a second language. What this means is that
> > you
> > > > see yourself as superior because your English is so great and they
> > have a
> > > > problem with English or Anglo culture.The logical conclusion is
> > probably
> > > > that English and Angloism has to be central to what we do.
> > > >
> > > > This is the Wikimedia list and when you follow this list, it is
> people
> > > from
> > > > all over the world that subscribe and comment. It is highly biased by
> > > group
> > > > think and I have observed that there is little willingness to
> consider
> > > > notions that do not fit in well with the group think.The biggest
> > problem
> > > in
> > > > this is not language but an unwillingness to consider arguments.
> > > >
> > > > It is easy to say "we have to be compassionate" and because of that
> we
> > > have
> > > > to choose our words well. It is tough to consider that it is not so
> > much
> > > > the words that are used but it is understanding what points are made
> > and
> > > > how they challenge the status quo.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >       GerardM
> > > >
> > > > On 5 July 2016 at 21:59, Nick Wilson (Quiddity) <
> nwil...@wikimedia.org
> > <javascript:;>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://medium.com/@mollyclare/taming-the-steamroller-how-to-communicate-compassionately-with-non-native-english-speakers-d95d8d1845a0
> > > > > A good essay.
> > > > >
> > > > > TL;DR: Some detailed examples of how to improve communication and
> > > > > interactions, for the benefit of anyone who uses English as a
> second
> > > > > language.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Excerpts, to whet [sharpen or stimulate] your appetite:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Phrasal verbs in English can be particularly hard to master. Just
> > > think
> > > > > about “cut off” vs. “cut up” vs. “cut over” vs. “cut in” vs. “cut
> > out”
> > > > vs.
> > > > > “cut down” vs. “cut back” and you’ll see how confusing it can be
> when
> > > you
> > > > > recommend “cutting back” on something, or asking someone to “cut it
> > > out”.
> > > > > [...]
> > > > >
> > > > > > Make your message very clear, especially your request. This is
> > doubly
> > > > > true for me, because I work with Germans, who are famously direct.
> > The
> > > > > American habit of softening and burying a request is just confusing
> > and
> > > > > pointless to them.
> > > > >
> > > > > > The last thing you and I want to do is overwhelm. We work across
> > > > language
> > > > > barriers, not because it’s glamorous or fun or easy, but because we
> > > care
> > > > > about collaborating with people who are different from us [...].
> And
> > > > > non-native speakers are committing to this collaboration even more
> > than
> > > > we
> > > > > are: they’re reaching out to us by working in English. [...]
> > > > >
> > > > > n.b. Yes, there are some over-generalizations and stereotypes in
> > there.
> > > > > It's still good overall, though! ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd like to link it on Metawiki, but I'm not sure where; Any
> > > suggestions?
> > > > > I've gotten (happily) lost in the [[Multilingual]] disambig page,
> and
> > > the
> > > > > [[Grants:Learning patterns]] pages, but the only place I can find
> > that
> > > > > collects advice like this, is the first section at
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/Manual#Guidelines - What
> > > page
> > > > > might I have missed?
> > > > >
> > > > > Quiddity
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> --
> --
> Bence Damokos
>
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
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