Gerard,
Since you appear to have little time for compassion, I will bluntly tell you 
what many people here have appeared to be trying to get through to you in more 
diplomatic language, and have made allowances for the fact that English is not 
apparently your home language. 
I/We find you unnecessarily blunt, rude and abrasive in your communication. I 
don’t know if this is intentional, but gentle hints do not seem to get through. 
We tolerate your language most of the time because we value your input, but we 
do not like it.
I am not going to ask you to change your ways as it may not be possible, or you 
may not want to do so. It is your choice. 
Cheers,
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of 
Gerard Meijssen
Sent: Thursday, 07 July 2016 10:00 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to communicate compassionately with non-native 
English speakers

Hoi,
You forget the other part that is so vital. Compassion is for the weak, it puts 
you in a superior position. The problem is much more in the understanding of 
what someone else has to say. It is not only about sending, it is as much about 
receiving. Listening, understanding is where we have a problem. Not so much in 
the choice of words.
Thanks,
       GerardM

On 7 July 2016 at 09:50, Michael Jahn <michael.j...@wikimedia.de> wrote:

> "it is not so much
> the words that are used but it is understanding what points are made 
> and how they challenge the status quo."
>
> --> This may be true, and what we should strive for as a movement. But 
> --> you
> still need words to make those points, and while one may fail to 
> understand what points are being made, even if all the words are 
> understood properly, the opposite makes the difference. If you _don't_ 
> understand the words in the first place, i. e. attribute a different 
> meaning than the speaker/author had intended, you _cannot_ be in a 
> position to understand the points.
> So, thanks Nick, for sharing! I like your post very much.
> Michael
> Am 07.07.2016 9:35 vorm. schrieb "Gerard Meijssen" <
> gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>:
>
> > Hoi,
> > I have been thinking about what you say. The problem I see is that 
> > your attitude is one where you have to be compassionate for the 
> > benefit of people for whom English is a second language. What this 
> > means is that you see yourself as superior because your English is 
> > so great and they have a problem with English or Anglo culture.The 
> > logical conclusion is probably that English and Angloism has to be central 
> > to what we do.
> >
> > This is the Wikimedia list and when you follow this list, it is 
> > people
> from
> > all over the world that subscribe and comment. It is highly biased 
> > by
> group
> > think and I have observed that there is little willingness to 
> > consider notions that do not fit in well with the group think.The 
> > biggest problem
> in
> > this is not language but an unwillingness to consider arguments.
> >
> > It is easy to say "we have to be compassionate" and because of that 
> > we
> have
> > to choose our words well. It is tough to consider that it is not so 
> > much the words that are used but it is understanding what points are 
> > made and how they challenge the status quo.
> > Thanks,
> >       GerardM
> >
> > On 5 July 2016 at 21:59, Nick Wilson (Quiddity) 
> > <nwil...@wikimedia.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://medium.com/@mollyclare/taming-the-steamroller-how-to-communica
> te-compassionately-with-non-native-english-speakers-d95d8d1845a0
> > > A good essay.
> > >
> > > TL;DR: Some detailed examples of how to improve communication and 
> > > interactions, for the benefit of anyone who uses English as a 
> > > second language.
> > >
> > >
> > > Excerpts, to whet [sharpen or stimulate] your appetite:
> > >
> > > > Phrasal verbs in English can be particularly hard to master. 
> > > > Just
> think
> > > about “cut off” vs. “cut up” vs. “cut over” vs. “cut in” vs. “cut out”
> > vs.
> > > “cut down” vs. “cut back” and you’ll see how confusing it can be 
> > > when
> you
> > > recommend “cutting back” on something, or asking someone to “cut 
> > > it
> out”.
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > > Make your message very clear, especially your request. This is 
> > > > doubly
> > > true for me, because I work with Germans, who are famously direct. 
> > > The American habit of softening and burying a request is just 
> > > confusing and pointless to them.
> > >
> > > > The last thing you and I want to do is overwhelm. We work across
> > language
> > > barriers, not because it’s glamorous or fun or easy, but because 
> > > we
> care
> > > about collaborating with people who are different from us [...]. 
> > > And non-native speakers are committing to this collaboration even 
> > > more than
> > we
> > > are: they’re reaching out to us by working in English. [...]
> > >
> > > n.b. Yes, there are some over-generalizations and stereotypes in there.
> > > It's still good overall, though! ;-)
> > >
> > >
> > > I'd like to link it on Metawiki, but I'm not sure where; Any
> suggestions?
> > > I've gotten (happily) lost in the [[Multilingual]] disambig page, 
> > > and
> the
> > > [[Grants:Learning patterns]] pages, but the only place I can find 
> > > that collects advice like this, is the first section at 
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/Manual#Guidelines - What
> page
> > > might I have missed?
> > >
> > > Quiddity
> > > _______________________________________________
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