On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 5:11 PM, Yusuke Matsubara <w...@whym.org> wrote:

> Perhaps https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Writing_clearly as well?
>
>
Perfect, thanks! I had already watchlisted that at some point, but I didn't
find it whilst searching. I'll look around later, to see where else that
page could be usefully linked from.


On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 5:05 AM, Birgit Müller
> <birgit.muel...@wikimedia.de> wrote:
> > Nick, thanks for sharing! This is really awesome. (Or should I write:
> "This
> > is helpful" to fit into the German stereotype? :D)
>

Haha! Yes, at Wikimania, various people from a few Northern European
countries commented on the habit in some cultures (particularly North
American) of frequently using superlatives. The tangential example that I
immediately thought of, is the song from The Lego Movie, "Everything Is
Awesome".


> Link it on Meta: I found
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Best_practices_in_giving_a_Wikipedia_presentation
> > and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Presentations, but both pages seem to
> be a
> > bit outdated/not visited very often.
> >
> > Might also make sense to link it on the general conference/Hackathon
> pages
> > like
> >
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Hackathons/Hackathon_tips_for_organizers#Communications
> > ?
>

I was initially thinking of it more as a guide to clearly-written (and
empathetically-read) communication, but yes, presentations are also
relevant. Maybe we should just interlink the [[Writing clearly]] page, from
one or more of those.


On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 12:34 AM, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hoi, I have been thinking about what you say. The problem I see is that
> your attitude is one where you have to be compassionate for the benefit of
> people for whom English is a second language. [...]
>

I think I understand what you mean, but I'd suggest that this is a perfect
example of what the article is about.
You have focused on the word-choice of "compassion", and a specific
definition of that word. We could instead, interpret the intent of the
author more towards the definition of "empathy" or "consideration". The
article could (should! AGF!) instead be more generously interpreted, to be
about cross-language communication in general, and to understand that it
was simply written by someone who uses English as their primary language
hence it approaches the issue from that perspective.

I.e. The same advice all applies if you work/communicate in a group that
uses [Japanese] as the primary language, but some of the participants are
not native [Japanese] speakers.

So, I'd reword your conclusion, as "we have to be empathetic (or
considerate) towards people for whom our native language (whatever that may
be) is not their own."

It is tough to consider that it is not so much the words that are used but
> it is understanding what points are made
>

Exactly! :-)  We should be careful about spending too much effort arguing
about the nuances of word choice, especially in informal discussions
(versus drafting a policy or writing code or similar, where word-choice can
be crucial!), and instead try to interpret what other people are
saying/writing, with an assumption of positive intent.

Hope that helps,
Quiddity / Nick
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