Hi Gerard,

I agree with you that there are many important issues, and as you mentioned
one of them is the quality of our products and services. However, I am
keenly aware of governance issues at WMF and how they affect the rest of
the ecosystem. WMF is a single point of failure (an issue which I would
like to see mitigated but is likely to take time on the order of years), so
for the foreseeable future I feel that it is in the interest of the
Wikimedia community and the affiliates to be mindful of WMF governance
matters.

I am happy to have a conversation about Wikipedia quality and Wikidata
integration, and I would like to invite you to start a different thread
about that subject.

Thank you,

Pine

On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 11:20 PM, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
> wrote:

> Hoi,
> My beef is that it is a question that does not go away, that has been asked
> for the umpteenth time. It comes across as very self defeating for us as a
> movement because it is not what will benefit us most and it seems like a
> "safe" subject because it takes away from real issues..
>
> In my experience far more problematic are the quality issues with
> Wikipedia. Many easy to implement improvements like doing away with red
> links and wiki links and replace them Wikidata items are just not
> considered. We face a lot of opposition from vested interests and the
> quality on many subjects seriously suffers. This does translate into
> information that is detrimental to our readers.
>
> Yes, other people may have different perspectives but given the lack of
> progress even an unwillingness to tackle many issues my perspective is that
> it is so far removed from what we should be doing and I am convinced that
> it will do us no good, it will splinter us more than bring us together.
>
> My hope is not in whatever committee that commits to group think. My hope
> is that we are true to what we are about and that is share in the sum of
> all knowledge. At this time we do not even share the sum of the knowledge
> that is available to us.
> Thanks,
>       GerardM
>
> On 26 July 2016 at 07:39, Christophe Henner <chen...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> > Hey,
> >
> > The question is not on the table right now.
> >
> > We're working to perform a gouvernance audit, board composition will be
> > part of it.
> >
> > Now, my personal opinion is it's neither urgent nor critical. And on top
> of
> > that I'm not sure it would be a good idea.
> >
> > All that being said, I'm sure it will come up during the gouvernance
> > review.
> >
> > And yes I missed it, sorry. Gérard, no need for such email, just, as Pine
> > did, reask the question :)
> >
> > Have a nice day
> >
> > Le 26 juil. 2016 6:54 AM, "Pine W" <wiki.p...@gmail.com> a écrit :
> >
> > > Hi BGC,
> > >
> > > I asked a question earlier in this thread which seems to have been
> > > overlooked. Is the BGC (or the Board as a whole) considering whether
> the
> > > Founder's seat will become an elected seat in the forseeable future?
> > >
> > > Pine
> > >
> > > On Jul 20, 2016 21:20, "Pine W" <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks Daruisz and all who worked on this.
> > > >
> > > > Looking at the bigger picture, the tone and pace of changes in WMF
> > > > governance over the past few months feel like a breath of fresh air.
> I
> > > hope
> > > > that this direction and pace continue.
> > > >
> > > > Speaking of elections and governance, will the Founder's seat become
> an
> > > > elected seat? It may be too early to answer this question, but I hope
> > > that
> > > > the BGC gives it some careful thought.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks again,
> > > >
> > > > Pine
> > > >
> > > > On Jul 20, 2016 18:00, "Dariusz Jemielniak" <dar...@alk.edu.pl>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Dear members of the Wikimedia community,
> > > >>
> > > >> As you know the board passed a resolution allowing for the creation
> > of a
> > > >> standing Elections Committee in November of last year [1]. Per the
> > > >> implementing resolution, the Board Governance Committee (BGC) has
> > > >> appointed
> > > >> the initial members from the recommendation of the Executive
> Director
> > > and
> > > >> her staff. We will be starting with 6 committee members:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>    -
> > > >>
> > > >>    User:Ajraddatz
> > > >>    <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAuth/Ajraddatz>
> > > >>    -
> > > >>
> > > >>    User:Mardetanha
> > > >>    <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAuth/Mardetanha>
> > > >>    -
> > > >>
> > > >>    User:Ruslik0
> > > >>    <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAuth/Ruslik0>
> > > >>    -
> > > >>
> > > >>    User:Philippe
> > > >>    <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAuth/Philippe
> > >slate
> > > >>    -
> > > >>
> > > >>    User:KTC <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAuth/KTC>
> > > >>    -
> > > >>
> > > >>    User:Atropine
> > > >>    <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAuth/Atropine>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> They will be joined by two official advisors from the Wikimedia
> > > >> Foundation:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>    -
> > > >>
> > > >>    James Alexander (Manager, Trust & Safety) from Community
> Engagement
> > > >>    -
> > > >>
> > > >>    Stephen LaPorte (Senior Legal Counsel) from the WMF Legal team
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> They will also be working closely with the BGC as a whole and
> > especially
> > > >> Nataliia and me. Because I may consider applying as a candidate in
> the
> > > >> upcoming community-selection process I will be recusing for any
> > > >> discussions
> > > >> involving that election[2].
> > > >>
> > > >> The new committee, along with the BGC, will, of course, be able to
> > > choose
> > > >> how many members and advisors they truly need and how to recruit the
> > > best
> > > >> candidates. One of the first orders of business for the committee
> will
> > > be
> > > >> to decide on a process for expanding its membership through some
> form
> > of
> > > >> open call. While there is an enormous amount of work for the
> committee
> > > to
> > > >> do, it can be expected that they will begin looking at:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>    -
> > > >>
> > > >>    The selection of a committee Chair
> > > >>    -
> > > >>
> > > >>    The dates and process for the upcoming community selection
> process
> > > (and
> > > >>    consider shortening the terms and having community elections in
> > early
> > > >> 2017,
> > > >>    so that the elected members would join the Board at April
> > > meeting[3]).
> > > >>    -
> > > >>
> > > >>    The method of voting for that process both for the upcoming
> > selection
> > > >>    and the future and
> > > >>    -
> > > >>
> > > >>    The composition of the board and how to ensure a steady supply of
> > > good
> > > >>    candidates (in particular, making sure that the candidates have
> the
> > > >>    skills and expertise matching the Board skill matrix while making
> > > sure
> > > >> that
> > > >>    the process is still owned by the community[4]).
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Just as the BGC is committed to greater transparency (see for
> example
> > > our
> > > >> recent minutes[5]), the committee will likely consult with the wider
> > > >> Wikimedia community in developing and revising election procedures
> > > within
> > > >> the scope of this charter to the greatest extent possible.
> > > >>
> > > >> This day has been a long time coming and is the result of requests
> > made
> > > by
> > > >> multiple different temporary election committees over the years. I'm
> > > glad
> > > >> to finally see it come to fruition and hope that it will allow our
> > > >> selection process to continue to expand and improve well beyond the
> > > >> record-breaking election we had in 2015.
> > > >>
> > > >> Before I sign off I also wanted to call out the amazing work of the
> > 2015
> > > >> temporary Election Committee[6]. They were put together in 2015 to
> do
> > > one
> > > >> thing: run an election. They did that well (with almost 3x the
> > > >> participation of the next largest year) but then they went well
> beyond
> > > the
> > > >> call of duty in serving as an advisory body to the board, offering
> > > >> invaluable feedback on how to fill the empty community selected
> seats
> > we
> > > >> saw this year. They did not have to do this, but they did it anyway,
> > > and I
> > > >> hope that everyone can acknowledge the stress and courage that took.
> > > >>
> > > >> Please join me in thanking the 2015 committee and welcoming the new
> > > >> standing committee!
> > > >>
> > > >> Dariusz Jemielniak ("pundit", current Board member)
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>    - [1]
> > > >> https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Elections_Committee
> > > >>    - [2] See also my disclosure to the BGC on that matter:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_Governance_Committee/2017_Election_Disclosure
> > > >>    - [3]
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2016-June/084592.html
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>    - [4]
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_Governance_Committee/2016_competence_matrix
> > > >>    - [5]
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_Governance_Committee/Minutes_07-08-2016
> > > >>    - [6]
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections_2015/Committee#Membership
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