What is the point. When not even the USA is "safe", we have to be
realistic. Wikimania is about propaganda for what we do. We have to travel
and selecting a place is not about you, it is about them. It is about the
people we aim to serve.

I made my point before, it did not get any attention then and my argument
now is that nothing changed. It is only the perception of the USA that has
been dented by an unfortunate "democratic" choice by last night's election.

On 9 November 2016 at 17:27, Pax Ahimsa Gethen <list-wikime...@funcrunch.org
> wrote:

> Gerard, as a queer black trans person who feels unsafe even in San
> Francisco (and has felt that way for years), I would really appreciate you
> not pushing last night's election results in my face to make a point.
> - Pax
> On 11/9/16 8:24 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>> Hoi,
>> Do you blame me for not feeling safe going to the USA?
>> Thanks,
>>       GerardM
>> On 8 November 2016 at 11:08, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> Hoi,
>>> Not going to North Corolina is absolutely fine with me. We do not gain
>>> anything by going there arguably not to any state in the United States.
>>> What Wikimania is, is a platform for propaganda for what we have, what we
>>> do, who we are and how we do what we do. In many countries Wikipedia is
>>> not
>>> the house hold name it is in the USA.
>>> Wikimania is not aimed for the English Wikipedia, it is aimed to further
>>> our movement. Not going to places is similar to saying that those other
>>> people, speaking other languages, with an other culture do not matter.
>>> They
>>> do.
>>> We should go to Russia, India, South Africa, China. The people of those
>>> countries should matter to us, the people we could share the sum of all
>>> knowledge with.
>>> THAT is what we do, sharing the sum of all knowledge.
>>> When the choice of the venue is only about being safe, we should not go
>>> to
>>> the USA (I do not feel safe there), we should go to Germany, to
>>> Switzerland
>>> and move the office as well. It is not likely to happen, not what I want
>>> either.
>>> If there is one thing about LBGT, it is that that struggle is still being
>>> fought. Hiding and keeping away does not work. It does not help the LBGT
>>> community. More importantly in this context it does not help the
>>> Wikimedia
>>> community. For the latter it is vital to make our message heard.We aim to
>>> share the sum of all knowledge and many people have not even heard of us.
>>> Thank,
>>>        GerardM
>>> On 18 October 2016 at 16:00, Pax Ahimsa Gethen <
>>> list-wikime...@funcrunch.org> wrote:
>>> Gerard, this isn't about "holiday destinations", it's about human rights
>>>> and dignity. That's why I emphasized in my original post that I'm
>>>> concerned
>>>> not only about the safety of conference attendees, but also about those
>>>> living in the host country. The choice of a venue in a location with a
>>>> poor
>>>> human rights record reflects poorly upon Wikipedia/Wikimedia and our
>>>> mission to share knowledge. There's a reason a number of major companies
>>>> pulled their events and funding out of North Carolina after the
>>>> restrictive
>>>> restroom laws were passed for example...
>>>> - Pax
>>>> On 10/18/16 6:26 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>>>> Hoi,
>>>>> For me safety is to a large extend secondary to what we aim to achieve.
>>>>> Our
>>>>> primary goal is to improve on our primary goal and it is "sharing in
>>>>> the
>>>>> sum of all knowledge". It is not for going to the perfect holiday
>>>>> destination.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>        GerardM
>>>>> On 18 October 2016 at 13:56, Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Gerard, could you provide some tangible examples of how other safety
>>>>>> aspects of Wikimania would be compromised if there is any specific
>>>>>> attention paid to the safety of LGBT+ Wikimedians? I cannot imagine
>>>>>> how such a thing could be true.
>>>>>> Based on my reading, nobody in this thread has asked for the safety of
>>>>>> LGBT+ attendees to be "prioritized" over other safety aspects. Please
>>>>>> don't make it appear as if they have.
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Fae
>>>>>> On 18 October 2016 at 11:42, Gerard Meijssen <
>>>>>> gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hoi,
>>>>>>> I do care that everybody can come to places where they are safe. All
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> specific LGBT attention to safety is however on many levels
>>>>>>> problematic
>>>>>>> when we prioritise this over other safety aspects. The big picture
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>> is that we need to go to places where bringing Wikipedia and what it
>>>>>>> stands
>>>>>> for the most good. It is why I would go to Russia, to China to India
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> South Africa.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> --
> Pax Ahimsa Gethen | http://funcrunch.org
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