So, are we unable to enforce these things currently? If someone comments on
a Phabricator task that user X is a big meanyface, are we unable to act
currently because there's no code of conduct so how could they have known
otherwise?

It should be pretty darn easy to make a policy on user interactions within
technical spaces. There is certainly a practice which is already followed,
so just codify it and call it a guideline or a generally accepted document.
I would certainly support a page that people can read to find our
expectations for interactions, and what happens if you're naughty. Instead,
it has been months (years?) of debate over wording and enforcement, when
there has been no demonstrated deficiency in how we currently deal with it.
Except of course the technical limitations, which they could have been
spending this time/money on fixing.

Also, I think I misread your first comment. I'm sorry for referencing it in
my comment then; I wasn't trying to "mould" your opinion to support my own.

Adrian Raddatz

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 1:29 AM, Vi to <vituzzu.w...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think they want a code of conduct as a background to any kind of
> enforcement, which sounds fairly legit.
>
> Vito
>
> 2016-11-21 2:33 GMT+01:00 Adrian Raddatz <ajradd...@gmail.com>:
>
> > Oh, and similar to WereSpielChequers, I agree that better enforcement
> > methods would be far more useful than spending staff time and money
> > worrying about the codes of conduct. I understand that they are all the
> > rage on the west coast of the US these days, but it's not going to help
> us
> > finally stop someone who is using proxies to create more accounts to
> harass
> > someone. It's not hard to see that with access to proxies and mobile IP
> > ranges, someone can engage in sockpuppetry and abuse of our wikis
> > indefinitely.
> >
> > The WMF has made progress on this recently, but there is still nothing to
> > deter someone from engaging in prolonged campaigns of on-wiki harassment
> > using sockpuppets. Maybe it's time to think about a more strict
> account-->
> > operator connection, such as requiring email addresses on new account
> > creations and a method of checking accounts by email.
> >
> > Adrian Raddatz
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Adrian Raddatz <ajradd...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Similar to Vito, the safe space/code of conduct crowd has never
> > > demonstrated that any of these principles are not already held and
> > enforced
> > > across our projects.
> > >
> > > Adrian Raddatz
> > >
> > > On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Vi to <vituzzu.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Same here, ofc.
> > >> I still cannot understand how there could be online communities
> refusing
> > >> these very basic principles.
> > >>
> > >> Vito
> > >>
> > >> 2016-11-21 0:57 GMT+01:00 Alex Monk <kren...@gmail.com>:
> > >>
> > >> > On 20 November 2016 at 13:35, Jonathan Cardy <
> > >> werespielchequ...@gmail.com>
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > The nastiest trolling, personal attacks and certainly the rape and
> > >> murder
> > >> > > threats will get people blocked anywhere in the movement except
> > maybe,
> > >> > > definitely in the past but hopefully not today, on IRC.
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> > I would kick+block people doing that sort of thing in the IRC
> channels
> > >> in
> > >> > which I am an op (e.g. #mediawiki, #wikimedia-labs and various minor
> > >> ones).
> > >> > I would be shocked to see ops of other channels willingly ignoring
> > that.
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