Dear Wes

Thank you for yet another prompt response.  It seems almost churlish to say
that unfortunately that is not what I have been asking for -- I must be
very bad at expressing myself to have given so many different people so
many different mistaken impressions of my request.  To me a product roadmap
would be a quite high-level view of the new products and major deveopments
and their linkages looking out on a time scale significantly in excess of a
single year, and at a level of detail significantly less than the
aggregation of all the teams' quarterly plans.  The roadmap would have the
level of abstraction, interconnection and timscale that allows you to say
that a three-year project such as the one you have just announced will
expedite features on your roadmap and that the grant enabled accelerating
the already started work on Structured Commons into a quicker three-year
time frame: so a roadmap on which you can locate a project with a time
frame that was previously beyond three years let alone one.  It is also
known that there are long-term projects such as parser unification, new
editors and discussion systems which look out well beyond the current
year.  Are there others -- we do not (yet) know.

So again, my request is that you share this higher-level, longer-term, if
not completely definitve roadmap with the community in the interests of
transparency not only as an abstract  objective but in order to maximise
the benefits of early engagement, discussion and co-creation.

Yours
"Rogol"

On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 9:29 PM, Wes Moran <wmo...@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hello Rogol,
>
> Thanks for the question.  The Annual Plan we follow and share with the
> community for review before we begin our work is available on Meta [1]. We
> update specific plans on a quarterly basis on our goals pages [2] as they
> may evolve over the year. We also provide a number of links for the
> specific teams on our Product page and welcome participation, discussion or
> connection through those pathways and directly with the feature teams [3].
>
> Specifically the Wikidata, Community Tech, Editing and Discovery teams have
> specific objectives and goals in this years annual plan.
>
> Hope this answers your question and certainly engage in the ongoing
> discussion around the work on the Commons page [4].
>
> Thanks,
> Wes
>
> Wes Moran
> Vice President of Product
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
>
> [1]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_
> Annual_Plan/2016-2017/Final#Product
> [2] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering/2016-17_Goals
> [3] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Product
> [4] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data/Overview
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 11:01 AM, Rogol Domedonfors <domedonf...@gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks to both Lydia and Denny for these further replies.  I assume that
> > the WMF has a clear stable and unified view of where it is taking its
> > various products and the dependencies, which is what I understand by the
> > phrase product roadmap.  "A single document" would be nice, but whatever
> it
> > is, I am asking for it to be shared with the community.
> >
> > "Rogol"
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 6:12 PM, Denny Vrandečić <vrande...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Rogol,
> > >
> > > that is why I pointed you to the links in that document, which go all
> the
> > > way back to 2004 discussions of such a project, and further discussions
> > > over the years. These pretty much establish for me that this item has
> > been
> > > a topic for commons for more than a decade now. But it seems I am
> > > misunderstanding you, and you are not looking for a documentation of
> the
> > > shared understanding of the roadmap for Commons and other Wikimedia
> > > products, but for a singular Foundation-written document that fixes the
> > > Wikimedia product roadmap over several years instead?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Denny
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 10:00 AM Rogol Domedonfors <
> > domedonf...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Denny
> > > >
> > > > Thank you but the link you provide appears to be to be "Our
> high-level
> > > > roadmap for developing the project", namely the Structured Data in
> > > Commons
> > > > project.  Since Lisa wrote "Structured Data on Commons was in our
> > product
> > > > roadmap" I was referring to the product roadmap on which the
> Structured
> > > > Data in Commons project is included -- that is, I was asking for a
> > > pointer
> > > > to the roadmap for "features both on the Wikidata development
> roadmap,
> > > and
> > > > in other products supported by the Wikimedia Foundation" referred to
> in
> > > Wes
> > > > Moran's initial post on this topic:
> > > >
> > > > But I appreciate the speed of your reply.
> > > >
> > > > "Rogol"
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 5:46 PM, Denny Vrandečić <
> vrande...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Rogol,
> > > > >
> > > > > this was the link previously provided on this project:
> > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data/
> Overview
> > > > > including
> > > > > links to previous documents.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Denny
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 9:32 AM Rogol Domedonfors <
> > > domedonf...@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Lisa
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You say that "Structured Data on Commons was in our product
> > roadmap,
> > > so
> > > > > > this grant is not diverting our attention.  The grant simply
> > enables
> > > us
> > > > > to
> > > > > > accelerate the work we were planning to do".  Please would you
> > > publish,
> > > > > or
> > > > > > point to, a version of that product roadmap that can inform the
> > > > > community's
> > > > > > participation in such planning exercises as the 2017 Wikimedia
> > > Movement
> > > > > > Strategy and other more tactical product planning processes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks in advance
> > > > > > "Rogol"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 11:01 PM, Lisa Gruwell <
> > > lgruw...@wikimedia.org>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Pete and Gerard-
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I just wanted to give my thoughts on restricted gifts.  Like
> most
> > > > > things,
> > > > > > > there are both good and bad restricted gifts.  They can be bad
> > if a
> > > > > > funder
> > > > > > > is making a well-intentioned gift that none-the-less pulls the
> > > > > > organization
> > > > > > > in direction that they were not planning to go.  Or even worse,
> > > when
> > > > a
> > > > > > > funder pays for something outside of an org's plans that has
> > > ongoing
> > > > > > > maintenance cost that are not covered in the grant.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is why the WMF board reviews all restricted grants per our
> > > gift
> > > > > > policy
> > > > > > > <https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Gift_policy>.  Those are
> > the
> > > > > types
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > dynamics that the board considers when they review a restricted
> > > > grant.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Structured Data on Commons was in our product roadmap, so this
> > > grant
> > > > is
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > diverting our attention.  The grant simply enables us to
> > accelerate
> > > > the
> > > > > > > work we were planning to do.  In terms of restrictions, we have
> > to
> > > > > follow
> > > > > > > through with the plan we submitted.  In other words, do what we
> > > said
> > > > we
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > going to do.  I think that accountability is a good thing.  And
> > the
> > > > > Sloan
> > > > > > > Foundation is a great long-term funder of WMF.  If something
> > > changes
> > > > as
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > work progress, I have no doubt we could have a reasonable
> > > > conversation
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > them about adjusting the plan.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > > Lisa
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Gerard Meijssen <
> > > > > > gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hoi,
> > > > > > > > Maybe restricted but the subject matter is exactly what we
> want
> > > > > anyway.
> > > > > > > > Where I have my reservations is that Wikidata will be set in
> > > stone
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > stuff that just is not right will be with us for forever.
> With
> > > more
> > > > > > money
> > > > > > > > it does not need to be a huge problem because it makes it
> more
> > > > > > > manageable.
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >       GerardM
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 9 January 2017 at 21:52, Pete Forsyth <
> > petefors...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Structured data on Commons is a huge and important area --
> > for
> > > > one
> > > > > > > thing,
> > > > > > > > > the whole Media Viewer project would have gone much more
> > > smoothly
> > > > > if
> > > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > > were underlying structured data to rely on. Kudos to WMF
> and
> > > > Sloan
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > focus on this issue!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If I'm not mistaken, this is by far the most extravagant
> > > > restricted
> > > > > > > grant
> > > > > > > > > in the history of the WMF. I believe the Stanton
> Foundation's
> > > > > > usability
> > > > > > > > > grant ($890k in 2008)[1] and Public Policy Initiative grant
> > > ($1.2
> > > > > > > million
> > > > > > > > > in 2010)[2] are the only ones that comes close. In the
> past,
> > > WMF
> > > > > > board
> > > > > > > > > members have expressed great skepticism about --
> specifically
> > > --
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > Sloan
> > > > > > > > > Foundation's influence, when it sought to place an observer
> > in
> > > > WMF
> > > > > > > board
> > > > > > > > > meetings. A former WMF Executive Director has written at
> > length
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > dangers of restricted grants.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It appears there is a new theory in play around restricted
> > > > grants.
> > > > > > Will
> > > > > > > > > somebody be expressing it publicly? Will the past practice
> of
> > > > > > > publishing
> > > > > > > > > the details of the grant expectations be followed?[3]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -Pete
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > [[User:Peteforsyth]]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [1] https://blog.wikimedia.org/
> > 2008/12/03/improved-usability-
> > > > > > > > > in-our-future/
> > > > > > > > > [2]
> > > > > > > > > https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Press_releases/May_
> > > > > > > > > 2010_Wikimedia_Foundation_will_engage_academic_experts_
> > > > > > > > > and_students_to_improve_public_policy_information
> > > > > > > > > [3]
> > > > > > > > > https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Public_Policy_
> > > > > > > > > Initiative_project_details
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Wes Moran <
> > > wmo...@wikimedia.org
> > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hello Wikimedia community,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It’s our delight to inform you that we received a
> > > US$3,015,000
> > > > > > grant
> > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation
> > > > > > > > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_P._Sloan_
> Foundation>
> > > [1]
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > expedite
> > > > > > > > > > development of structured data on Commons. The grant will
> > be
> > > > > given
> > > > > > > over
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > course of three years, and will allow us to develop a
> team,
> > > in
> > > > > > > > > > collaboration with the Wikidata team at Wikimedia
> > > Deutschland,
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > > focus on integrating the structured data features of
> > Wikidata
> > > > > into
> > > > > > > > > > describing the media files on Commons.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This work will allow us to expedite features both on the
> > > > Wikidata
> > > > > > > > > > development roadmap, and in other products supported by
> the
> > > > > > Wikimedia
> > > > > > > > > > Foundation. The grant also provides funding to ensure
> that
> > > > > movement
> > > > > > > > > > stakeholders, like Wiki Loves Monuments and GLAM-Wiki
> > program
> > > > > > > leaders,
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > external partners who contribute heavily to Commons, such
> > as
> > > > > GLAMs,
> > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > involved in the development.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > We have drafted a high level overview of the grant and
> its
> > > > scope,
> > > > > > > > > available
> > > > > > > > > > on Commons
> > > > > > > > > > <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_
> > > > > > > > data/Sloan_Grant>
> > > > > > > > > > [2]. A blog post about the grant is also available on the
> > > > > Wikimedia
> > > > > > > > blog
> > > > > > > > > > <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/01/09/sloan-foundation-
> > > > > > > > structured-data>
> > > > > > > > > > [3].
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > We are currently in the process of identifying the
> > technical
> > > > lead
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > project. If you have questions, Alex Stinson, the
> > > Foundation’s
> > > > > > > > GLAM-Wiki
> > > > > > > > > > strategist, will be leading the community engagement and
> > > > > > > communications
> > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > the project until we hire a community liaison as part of
> > the
> > > > > grant.
> > > > > > > > Stay
> > > > > > > > > > tuned for more details about the project in the coming
> > > months.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > We’re excited to be able to support this project, and
> look
> > > > > forward
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > your
> > > > > > > > > > participation in its development.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thank you,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Wes Moran and Maggie Dennis
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > *Wes Moran, Vice President of Product*
> > > > > > > > > > *Maggie Dennis, Interim Chief of Community Engagement *
> > > > > > > > > > *Wikimedia Foundation*
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> > Alfred_P._Sloan_Foundation
> > > > > > > > > > [2]
> > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data/
> > > > > > > > > Sloan_Grant
> > > > > > > > > > [3] https://blog.wikimedia.org/
> > 2017/01/09/sloan-foundation-
> > > > > > > > > structured-data
> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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