This basic issue has for many years been a "hot" issue in Sweden.

And the use of the words "han" (he/his) and "hon" (she/her) has become a minefield. And to use "him and her" to mean all type of persons is just not acceptable (what about all who want to use other attributes to define themselves).

And a new word has been created "hen", meant to be a more neutral word. But then this word has become very controversial as it is seen as a leftist/feminist thing by conservative/populists

So when it comes to how we use them in documents related to WIkipedia, is to not use any of them. It is a little bit more complicated but it is quite possible. "The person who takes a photo should" etc

And our standpoint is that we as Wikipedians should not be first in introducing new use of language but wait until it has become mainstream (if it ever will be)

Anders



Den 2017-04-07 kl. 00:24, skrev Fæ:
Thanks for raising the different language problems. I'm aware of it,
though I only edit in English.

Last weekend I was much enlightened by sitting down with a German
trans contributor, who was showing me the system language problems on
the German Wikipedia, and together we started having fun comparing
trans related policies and trans related article numbers. I was amazed
at the difference. No, that's not enough, I was really shocked that
the second largest Wikipedia that I deeply respect, is a community
that apparently has little appetite or any active discussion on these
LGBT+ issues. In comparison the English Wikipedia feels like a vibrant
and creative garden of Eden to me as an LGBT+ contributor.

By forging ahead, at least on Wikimedia Commons[1] and attempting the
same on the English Wikipedia[2], we hope to set a healthy example for
what is possible, and lay down the challenge to other projects to be
truly welcoming and feel encouraging for trans and genderqueer readers
and editors, rather than just saying that we are.

Language may be very limiting, sure, let's accept that fact of life.
It's both interesting and difficult. But it's not unimaginable that
our Wikimedia movement could end up adopting leading edge new
non-gendered terms in multiple languages for simple words like "user"
and "administrator" that currently are unnecessarily gendered. We
could even show willing by taking baby steps like just empowering our
users to set their own preferred pronoun style, like Ve or Mx, which
is entirely possible right now, today, in the MediaWiki software.
Ignoring these options, or even joking about them, is to pretend that
genderqueer people don't exist.

Yes, please flag up the issues, let's discuss the challenges. No, I
simply do not accept that by we are asking for the impossible on any
of our projects, I never shall accept it.

Links:
1. Wikimedia Commons, new draft policy created today, because of these
discussions: 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Use_of_gender_neutral_language
2. Drafting a new English Wikipedia RFC, because of these discussions:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_LGBT_studies#Research_for_proposing_a_gender_neutral_principle_for_Wikipedia_policies_and_guidelines

Thanks,
Fae

On 6 April 2017 at 21:49, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
There are a lot of languages where there are no neutral gender, or where
there are a single male gender, or it can even be that the only neutral
gender is used for things and animals.

In German there is an expectation of gender-correct form. In Norwegian
there is an expectation of a neutral form. In Danish there is only
masculine forms.

Sorry but this idea is not generally usable.

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 10:37 PM, Raymond Leonard <
raymond.f.leonard...@gmail.com> wrote:

One can use "one" or "one's" to substitute in many places for 3rd person
singular pronouns. Not everywhere, but it is in keeping with English
grammar.

Peaceray

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 10:35 AM, J. <j.blackm...@gmail.com> wrote:

Instead of:
* A photographer has to be given credit when the picture is used.
How about:
* The artist must be given attribution when an image is reused.

Cheers! Wayne Calhoon (AKA Checkingfax)

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