Thanks for the reminder about that message, I had actually forgotten about
it.
-Andrew


On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 4:23 AM, Andrea Zanni <zanni.andre...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Last time I remember we had a discussion¹ was September 2011 (!):
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2011-
> September/thread.html
>
> There are several threads worth revisiting:
> I was looking for an old-but-great Andrew Lih's post about Wikinews², and I
> re-discovered that a project had forkedfrom Wikinews in 2011³: it was
> called the http://theopenglobe.org, and (spoiler) it's now dead.
>
> Generally speaking, I think that Jimmy experimenting with another project
> speaks volume:
> and I do think it's a good idea.
>
> Simply put, we have a lot of zombie projects, and we¹ never had the will to
> do the tough decision
> of killing them... *or* really investing in them.
> At the moment, the actual policy with sister projects (all of them, minus
> Wikidata), is
> "don't ask don't tell".
>
> The communities do what they can, and what they cannot do they don't.
> There is no non-volunteer development, and even no knowledge about sister
> projects, both within the WMF and the rest of the movement. Wikipedians
> rarely go in sister projects.
>
> I really hope this Strategy process will be seen by the larger community as
> the right chance to discuss all this. A lot of strategy statements go into
> the direction "collect/provide all written and oral knowledge ever
> produced", which is more or less our vision, and this is why we thought to
> create non-encyclopedic projects in the first place (a image archive; a
> library; a dictionary; a quote compendium; etc.).
>
> It's probably time that we have this conversation.
>
> Aubrey
> (your friendly occasional Nemo)
> Wikisource Community User Group
>
>
> <http://theopenglobe.org>
> ¹ meaning, *we* that live on these mailing lists
> ² this:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2011-
> September/068381.html
> ³
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2011-
> September/068290.html
>
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Ariel Glenn WMF <ar...@wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Jimmy,
> >
> > The articles I've read on the new venture have been like appetizers,
> > providing just enough information to generate a new list of questions.
> :-)
> > So, in no particular order, here are some things that came to mind:
> >
> > Will the focus be investigative journalism, or "deep dives" in the manner
> > of newsdeeply.com, or breaking news, or something else?
> >
> > AIUI, fact-checking will be done by community volunteers in the
> > collaborative manner of Wikipedia; will they flag information that they
> > consider to be problematic, annotate draft news articles with comments
> and
> > questions, revise drafts themselves,...?
> >
> > The website shows an initial goal of ten journalists to be hired; does
> this
> > include copy editors as well?  And more generally, how will copy editing
> be
> > handled?
> >
> > With what frequency do you envision news to be published, e.g. a weekly
> > magazine, a daily feed of several short pieces and one feature article,
> > ...?
> >
> > Who will have access to journalists' notes and other raw materials?  How
> > will sources be protected while permitting maximum participation of
> > community volunteers in the vetting/fact-checking process?  Will there be
> > provision for leakers, i.e. some sort of SecureDrop thing?  If so, how
> will
> > that be handled?
> >
> > Will guides be produced around vetting of information, like e.g. the
> guide
> > at verificationhandbook.com?  More generally, how will community members
> > learn vetting and verification skills for journalism?
> >
> > How will good-faith disputes around fact-checking be resolved and by
> whom?
> > How will trolls be handled?
> >
> > Will Wikitribune journalists collaborate with other groups doing
> > like-minded work, for example bellingcat.com?
> >
> > I gather that there are developers working on this project too, at least
> on
> > wordpress hacking; are they also part of the crowdfunding?  More
> generally,
> > is budget/staffing information available or will it be soon?
> >
> > What roles will the four named advisors play in this project, with their
> > specific skillsets?
> >
> > In an ever shrinking paid market for journalism, where funding is harder
> > and harder to come by and many publications have closed their doors or
> > turned digital-only, what are your thoughts about competing in that
> market,
> > both as a job provider and potentially taking subscribers from other
> media?
> >
> > Please feel free to ramble on at length about these topics as much as you
> > like; I'm interested in the broader picture and not just the specific
> > details :-)
> >
> > Thanks a lot!
> >
> > Ariel
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 12:59 AM, Jimmy Wales <jimmywa...@wikia-inc.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Today I announced a new initiative, outside of my Wikimedia activities,
> > > to combat fake news. It is important to me that I share directly with
> > > all of you information about this new initiative early on.
> > >
> > > The new project  will use a wiki-style setup and experiment with
> > > bringing together professional journalists and community contributors
> to
> > > produce fact-checked, global news stories.  At launch, we'll be using a
> > > hacked version of wordpress and we'll be evaluating whether that's the
> > > right tool moving forward.  Wordpress has a lot to
> > > commend it (free software, mature platform, used by lots of newsrooms,
> > > active developer ecosystem) but also has some philosophy that's quite
> > > "top down" in a way.
> > > (Not many people would think in a wiki way when setting up a newsroom!)
> > >
> > > This new initiative, Wikitribune, will be a learning experience - my
> > > vision is one that I've had a hard time explaining... except to
> > > Wikimedians who tend to immediately
> > > get it.
> > >
> > > While I am launching this project independent from Wikipedia and the
> > > Wikimedia Foundation, it is my plan that this new project will work
> > > alongside Wikimedia in the free knowledge movement. For example, I hope
> > > that the numerous Wikinews/Wikinoticias/Wikinotizie/etc. communities
> can
> > > collaborate with the  Wikitribune community in way that allows both to
> > > learn and benefit from each other. Additionally, Wikitribune will
> > > utilize the same Creative Commons license (CC-BY) as other free content
> > > projects in
> > > the news space - so they can take the stories written by our
> > > professional journalists and communities and make use of them.
> > >
> > > You can find out more information about Wikitribune at:
> > > https://www.wikitribune.com
> > >
> > > Thank you for your time and I'm happy to answer questions!  (But I'm
> > > quite swamped with everything at the moment so please forgive me if I
> > > answer in bursts!)
> > >
> > > --Jimbo
> > >
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