I see your point, Gergo, but in reality Phabricator is an even worse
channel to discuss projects that are, essentially, social issues.  Whether
or not to have an onion may appear to be essentially a technical issue, but
I have yet to see any indication in numerous discussions about Tor that I
have read and/or participated in that our technical geniuses (and I say
that with warmth and honesty) really give a lot of thought to the legal and
social implications of providing active support to the dark web.  It is a
social and ethical issue (from just about all sides) and should be
discussed with that in mind.

I have little doubt that it is entirely technically possible to set up a
Tor onion on an isolated WMF server somewhere or other.  It's probably
child's play for many who work within the area, and I have little doubt
that there are many individuals within the broad Wikimedia community who
have chosen to use or actively support Tor.  Setting this up is not a
technical "problem" to be solved (which is essentially what Phabricator is
for). I will again reinforce: it's a social and ethical issue, and only
once that is resolved would it be time to consider it a "technical

With respect to "known editors" using Tor, I'll take the opportunity to
also respond to Lane. I think I could paraphrase his concerns by saying
that, from where he sits, it seems that all Tor users are painted with the
same brush, and that there are some legitimate users of Tor, and some
legitimate reasons that certain individuals would potentially benefit from
using Tor.  I happen to agree with him on this point.  I am well aware of
at least half a dozen Tor users known to the enwiki community who
explicitly requested IPBE on their existing accounts so that they could
edit; the accounts tended not to have many edits, but the editors'
rationales were usually that they were Tor users and thus were unable to
edit. I'm aware that several of those individuals have been granted IPBE
over time; yes, they have to ask for it, but then so do the users who want
to edit through hard-blocked VPNs.  I can't speak for other projects, but I
can say that on enwiki there are both administrators and functionaries who
are liberal in their granting of IPBE. I sometimes find it odd that nobody
asks me directly to help them out; I think I've granted it every time I was


On 13 June 2017 at 06:28, Gergő Tisza <gti...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Now that we have ascertained (again) that wikimedia-l is a ​poor channel
> for focused discussions about tech proposals, can we move this to
> Phabricator?
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