Hi James,

A matter of concern is that WMF is far from having an exemplary record of
good governance and transparency. It's problematic for WMF to be pointing
fingers at other organizations and telling them to improve their governance.

On the other hand, based on my limited understanding of the facts, it seems
to me that the situation with WMFR shouldn't be allowed to continue
indefinitely. Pulling the chapter agreement should be an option, although I
would prefer that that option be exercised by someone other than the WMF
staff and/or WMF Board. I don't think that the Affiliations Committee would
be a good option either, at least not with its present form, since it is an
advisory committee to the WMF Board and it relies on a charter from the WMF
Board for its authority, which means that the Affiliations Committee could
be easily manipulated by the WMF Board and in any case a decision from the
Affiliations Committee would need the approval of the WMF Board.

I think that most people would prefer that the existing WMFR organization
be returned to good health, but if that doesn't happen in a timely manner,
then there are a lot of difficult choices to be made, unfortunately.

Pine


On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 6:20 PM, James Salsman <jsals...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Peter, in this situation I think it is completely appropriate and
> preferable for the Foundation Director to make the continued existence
> of the Chapter contingent on their agendizing the specific questions
> of audit, transparency, and recall in the General Assembly which the
> members who have called the assembly are trying to call, especially
> since there are suddenly so many new members and the Chapter
> leadership has deliberately censored the only means for the membership
> to communicate with each other.
>
> Frankly, I think removing the restriction and moderation on the
> chapter mailing list is the very first thing that the Foundation
> should require of the Chapter at this point. The choice is apparently
> between a few people getting more email than they want and complete
> dysfunctional takeover.
>
> Ting, can you please say how that, "can open a door to do a lot of
> harm to the movement"?
>
> Sincerely,
> Jim
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 9:36 PM, Peter Southwood
> <peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > Are you requesting her to do this, or asking if she has the
> rights/power/authority to do this?
> > Cheers,
> > Peter
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> Behalf Of James Salsman
> > Sent: Thursday, August 3, 2017 1:11 PM
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List; Katherine Maher
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France
> >
> > Can Katherine Maher as Foundation Executive Director decide and announce
> a new policy that the continuation of the WMFR Charter is contingent on the
> September General Assembly agenda including particular items which they may
> not otherwise be inclined to agendas, please?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 6:33 PM, Devouard (gmail) <fdevou...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> The current situation at Wikimedia France is ABSOLUTE NON SENSE
> >>
> >>
> >> After MONTHS spent trying to figure out what was going on, collecting
> >> data, finding witnesses, fighting fears of being sued...
> >> we succeeded to mobilize 25% of Wikimedia France members to vote to
> >> request a General Assembly. That was a challenge. It took us several
> >> weeks to achieve that.
> >>
> >>
> >> Now... the General Assembly is scheduled 9th of September. But per
> >> bylawys, the current board decides of the agenda of the meeting.
> >> Topics not on the agenda can not lead to any votes... Being generous
> >> (sarcasm on), the current board will open the floor for discussion
> >> AFTER the General Assembly. Which somehow defeats the whole process as
> >> the discussion should occur BEFORE the vote. Also, some of us would
> >> like some resolutions to be voted upon, such as request of a financial
> audit...
> >>
> >>
> >> According to our bylaws, discussion points and decisions propositions
> >> may be made by the members and will be added to the agenda IF at least
> >> 25% of the membership ask for them. And this should be approved one
> >> month before the actual assembly. Which is just in a few days...
> >>
> >>
> >> But to make things easier for us...
> >> * some members memberships requests and renewals were rejected, thus
> >> decreasing the number of potential voters. Of course, the memberships
> >> rejected were from opponents to the current board... who would have
> >> voted for the new agenda...
> >> * in the same time (2 weeks...), the membership increased from 275 to
> >> 300 members. No idea who those 25 new members are. But increased
> >> number of members is making it even tougher to reach the 75 votes to
> >> request additions to the agenda.
> >> * the main mailing list of the association is still closed... which
> >> means we can NOT reach out to ALL members. We have no means to contact
> >> them. I managed to get a public list opened just a few days before the
> >> closure of the internal mailing list and to send a call for
> >> registration. So the most active members actually joined that public
> >> list and are within reach. But all the other members... the ones who
> >> did not reach to that new public list... we have NO MEANS to contact
> them.
> >> How are we supposed to get members to be given the chance to vote on
> >> an agenda when they do not KNOW about this agenda ? We can't tell them
> >> about it.
> >>
> >> How serious and honest from our current board is that ? This is beyond
> >> shameful behavior.
> >>
> >> So, friends, I would like to ask you help.
> >>
> >>
> >> If by any chance, you joined the association in the past 2 weeks...
> >> please vote.
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimédia_France/Assemblée_générale/se
> >> ptembre_2017/Points_à_ajouter_à_l%27ordre_du_jour
> >>
> >>
> >> Please, do realy our call in your network.
> >>
> >> If you know anyone who might by chance be a member of Wikimedia
> >> France, please tell them about the vote. It is here :
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimédia_France/Assemblée_générale/se
> >> ptembre_2017/Points_à_ajouter_à_l%27ordre_du_jour
> >>
> >> Or RELAY in social networks. For example that tweet
> >> https://twitter.com/photos_floues/status/892731233784008704
> >>
> >> Or DROP A WORD to current board members and tell them about how wrong
> >> they behave by not giving a chance to democracy Something like "please
> >> inform all Wikimedia France members about the vote opened for the new
> >> agenda : "
> >>
> >> The current board members
> >> * Secretary : https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:EdouardHue
> >> * the President : https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Authueil
> >> * the vice President :
> >> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilisatrice:AlienSpoon
> >> * The treasurer : https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Floflo
> >> * and the former president who is now regular member:
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:ShreCk
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Florence
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Le 02/08/2017 à 20:09, Pierre-Selim a écrit :
> >>>
> >>> The passing of Louise is really sad :(
> >>>
> >>> On the other fronts, Edouard it feels like you're not telling things
> >>> the way they really are.
> >>>
> >>> "The board acknowledge..." means the board has been forced to a new
> >>> AGM by 25% of the member. Our bylaws dictate that.
> >>>
> >>> The board has published a shameful "Right of reply" [1], full of
> >>> inexact/false statements that are on the same line than the email
> >>> sent by the board on July 11th (and shared here by Chris [2]).
> >>> This Right of reply even "use" Louise passing ... For shame!
> >>>
> >>> In an uncollaborative way, the board has not listen to the
> >>> community/member for the agenda which forces the members to a new
> >>> vote [3] to add items to the agenda ... during the summer ... and
> >>> Wikimania.
> >>>
> >>> I hope the board will have again to "Acknowlege" the voice of the
> >>> community, but I wish we did not had to go this way.
> >>>
> >>> I am truly ashamed of this board,
> >>>
> >>> [1]
> >>> https://www.mathisbenguigui.eu/wikimedia-timeline/droitdereponse.html
> >>> [2]
> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2017-July/088008.ht
> >>> ml [3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimédia_France/
> >>> Assemblée_générale/septembre_2017/Points_à_ajouter_à_l'ordre_du_jour
> >>>
> >>> 2017-07-26 17:56 GMT+02:00 Yaroslav Blanter <ymb...@gmail.com>:
> >>>
> >>>> Yes, I figured this out, thanks. Now copyediting.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers
> >>>> Yaroslav
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 5:51 PM, Natacha Rault <n.ra...@me.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> probably me...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Le 26 juil. 2017 à 17:49, Yaroslav Blanter <ymb...@gmail.com> a
> >>>>>> écrit
> >>>>
> >>>> :
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Actually, after Catherine's mail, an English article was started
> >>>>>> by
> >>>>>
> >>>>> someone
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I can not recognize from the username.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Merzeau
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cheers
> >>>>>> Yaroslav
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Katherine Maher
> >>>>>> <kma...@wikimedia.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Dear Édouard and our other colleagues at Wikimédia France,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> We are sorry to hear about the passing of Mrs. Louise Merzeau.
> >>>>>>> While I
> >>>>>
> >>>>> did
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> not have a chance to meet her, I understand she was an advocate
> >>>>>>> for
> >>>>
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Commons movement and a leading academic on digital identities and
> >>>>>>> the relationship between technology and culture. I suspect we
> >>>>>>> would have
> >>>>>
> >>>>> gotten
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> along well.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Although she did not get to share her knowledge longer, we are
> >>>>
> >>>> grateful
> >>>>>
> >>>>> for
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> the contributions she made. I have no doubt Wikimedia would have
> >>>>>
> >>>>> benefited
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> greatly from her continued advocacy.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I recognize with everything that is going on, an event like this
> >>>>>>> can quickly pass by without enough notice and tribute from all of
> us.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> However,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I hope we can pause to recognize that, above all, we are people
> >>>>>>> who
> >>>>
> >>>> have
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> come together under a shared vision for a better future. The
> >>>>>>> passion
> >>>>
> >>>> and
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> bond that unites us are much stronger than any disagreements or
> >>>>>
> >>>>> challenges.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Louise was a part of that vision, and we owe it to her to
> >>>>>>> recognize
> >>>>
> >>>> her
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> passing.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation, please know that she is in
> >>>>>>> our thoughts and that the community has our condolences.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Katherine
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> PS. I encourage you to learn more about Mrs. Merzeau and her life
> >>>>>>> from
> >>>>>
> >>>>> her
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> article on French Wikipedia:  https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Louise_Merzeau
> >>
> >>
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