2017-08-08 12:20 GMT+03:00 John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com>:
> Policy should not have local variations, unless you want to create
> something different from Wikipedia.

Each version of Wikipedia is a different encyclopedia. There are
vastly different inclusion policies and general policies between
the different encyclopedias out there, what links them is that they
provide information from all areas of knowledge.

> This is about core content policies.
> Those are no original research, verifiability, and neutral point of view.
> The one most don't follow is neutral point of view, where projects rewrite
> world history to focus on their own local view.

Having a policy about it does not solve the issue. Having a policy one
can't really change will make it even worse.{{citation needed}} :)

>
> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 2:20 AM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> its the cultural differences that influence the policy, so who's culture is
>> more significant than everyone elses that will dictate the policies.
>>
>> On 8 August 2017 at 08:14, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Yes there are cultural differences between wikipedias on _content_, but
>> > there should be no differences on _policy_ about that content.
>> > Note also that there are some differences on use of _facts_ that are
>> highly
>> > troublesome, and that comes from relaxed core policies.
>> > Armenian genocide for example.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > to quote, worth a read before even considering policies being global
>> > > http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/asi.23901/abstract
>> > >
>> > > This article explores the relationship between linguistic culture and
>> the
>> > > > preferred standards of presenting information based on article
>> > > > representation in major Wikipedias. Using primary research analysis
>> of
>> > > the
>> > > > number of images, references, internal links, external links, words,
>> > and
>> > > > characters, as well as their proportions in Good and Featured
>> articles
>> > on
>> > > > the eight largest Wikipedias, we discover a high diversity of
>> > approaches
>> > > > and format preferences, correlating with culture. We demonstrate that
>> > > > high-quality standards in information presentation are not globally
>> > > shared
>> > > > and that in many aspects, the language culture's influence determines
>> > > what
>> > > > is perceived to be proper, desirable, and exemplary for encyclopedic
>> > > > entries. As a result, we demonstrate that standards for encyclopedic
>> > > > knowledge are not globally agreed-upon and “objective” but local and
>> > very
>> > > > subjective.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > On 4 August 2017 at 10:18, Ziko van Dijk <zvand...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > The number of pillars depends on the language version...
>> > > > And whether some rules is called pilöar not dpes not seem to be pf
>> much
>> > > > importance
>> > > > Ziko
>> > > >
>> > > > John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> schrieb am Do. 3. Aug. 2017 um
>> > > 14:42:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Five pillars are moot.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > The moment you have a centralised policy you take away the
>> ability
>> > to
>> > > > > > discuss, makes decisions, and achieve consensus from the
>> community
>> > > that
>> > > > > > create the projects. Importantly you create the opportunity for
>> > > banned
>> > > > > and
>> > > > > > blocked editors to decide what happens in a community.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > By having a base set of simple policies in the Incubator that are
>> > > > > > atuomatically created when a project starts up you give them the
>> > best
>> > > > > guide
>> > > > > > to establishing themselves well before that project goes live,
>> > ince a
>> > > > > > project is live it has to be allowed to develop its community.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > We already have the 5 pillars which are the basis for the
>> projects,
>> > > but
>> > > > > > meta is not a place that the content creating community spends a
>> > lot
>> > > of
>> > > > > > time.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On 3 August 2017 at 19:07, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Having centralized core policies would lessen the maintenance
>> and
>> > > > > > process,
>> > > > > > > not increase them.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Strainu <strain...@gmail.com>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > The core policies should be the ones pushed by board
>> > resolution,
>> > > > and
>> > > > > > > > those should be the absolute minimum required to keep the
>> > > projects
>> > > > > > > > safe from a legal POV. Period. Otherwise, people with little
>> > > > > > > > understanding of small Wikipedias will try to push stuff from
>> > > > en.wp.
>> > > > > > > > Just recently someone was trying to have an RFC on meta on
>> all
>> > > the
>> > > > > > > > different processes that en.wp has and ro.wp does not have,
>> > with
>> > > > > > > > little consideration on whether the manpower to implement,
>> let
>> > > > alone
>> > > > > > > > maintain, these processes exists. No thank you to rule
>> pushing
>> > > > > without
>> > > > > > > > local context.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Having a community take a rule from en.wp is different, just
>> as
>> > > > long
>> > > > > > > > as some kind of discussion happens within the community about
>> > it.
>> > > > > Even
>> > > > > > > > if the rule is really useless or harmful and the community
>> did
>> > > not
>> > > > > > > > realize that in the beginning, at least it can evolve
>> > differently
>> > > > > from
>> > > > > > > > the English one. Have a centralized repository and trying to
>> > > change
>> > > > > > > > the rules there by consensus would be much more difficult for
>> > > small
>> > > > > > > > communities.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Strainu
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > 2017-08-02 17:05 GMT+03:00 John Erling Blad <
>> jeb...@gmail.com
>> > >:
>> > > > > > > > > Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually the same core
>> > > content
>> > > > > > > > policies,
>> > > > > > > > > but with slightly different wording. Nearly all, because a
>> > lot
>> > > of
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or only partial
>> > > > > policies.
>> > > > > > It
>> > > > > > > > > takes a lot of time to actually make them and keep them
>> > > updated.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Creating and maintaining the core content policies should
>> not
>> > > be
>> > > > > > > > something
>> > > > > > > > > that small projects should invest a lot of time in, they
>> > should
>> > > > > > simply
>> > > > > > > be
>> > > > > > > > > able to point to existing policies on Meta. The central
>> > > policies
>> > > > > > should
>> > > > > > > > be
>> > > > > > > > > localized if necessary.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Checking Meta I find
>> > > > > > > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/The_no_original_research_
>> > > > policy
>> > > > > > > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Neutral_point_of_view
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > I can't find anything like "Verifiability".
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation to make some
>> > > sound
>> > > > > > > baseline
>> > > > > > > > > policies, and with the option for local projects to refine
>> > > those?
>> > > > > > > Perhaps
>> > > > > > > > > with assistance from editors on Wikipedia?
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Lets try to make the policies accurate, without "no
>> original
>> > > > > > research"
>> > > > > > > > > diverging into verifiability of external sources. It should
>> > be
>> > > > > about
>> > > > > > > > > original research in content on Wikipedia. Likewise, at
>> some
>> > > > > projects
>> > > > > > > > > neutral point of view has become "do not diverge from
>> > creators
>> > > > > point
>> > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > > view"…
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Would this be possible? It would be really nice if those
>> > > baseline
>> > > > > > > > policies
>> > > > > > > > > pages could be copied to the individual projects like
>> central
>> > > > user
>> > > > > > > pages,
>> > > > > > > > > so they would be "internal" to the projects. Thus the
>> > projects
>> > > > > would
>> > > > > > > have
>> > > > > > > > > more "ownership" of them.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > The same thing apply to other meta projects (Wikipedia,
>> > > > Wikibooks,
>> > > > > > > > > Wiktionary, etc).
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Jeblad
>> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > --
>> > > > > > GN.
>> > > > > > President Wikimedia Australia
>> > > > > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
>> > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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>> > > --
>> > > GN.
>> > > President Wikimedia Australia
>> > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
>> > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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>> --
>> GN.
>> President Wikimedia Australia
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>> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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