Verifiability can be very different. For example oral sources.

JP

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017, 05:20 John Erling Blad, <jeb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Policy should not have local variations, unless you want to create
> something different from Wikipedia. This is about core content policies.
> Those are no original research, verifiability, and neutral point of view.
> The one most don't follow is neutral point of view, where projects rewrite
> world history to focus on their own local view.
>
> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 2:20 AM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > its the cultural differences that influence the policy, so who's culture
> is
> > more significant than everyone elses that will dictate the policies.
> >
> > On 8 August 2017 at 08:14, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Yes there are cultural differences between wikipedias on _content_, but
> > > there should be no differences on _policy_ about that content.
> > > Note also that there are some differences on use of _facts_ that are
> > highly
> > > troublesome, and that comes from relaxed core policies.
> > > Armenian genocide for example.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > to quote, worth a read before even considering policies being global
> > > > http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/asi.23901/abstract
> > > >
> > > > This article explores the relationship between linguistic culture and
> > the
> > > > > preferred standards of presenting information based on article
> > > > > representation in major Wikipedias. Using primary research analysis
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > number of images, references, internal links, external links,
> words,
> > > and
> > > > > characters, as well as their proportions in Good and Featured
> > articles
> > > on
> > > > > the eight largest Wikipedias, we discover a high diversity of
> > > approaches
> > > > > and format preferences, correlating with culture. We demonstrate
> that
> > > > > high-quality standards in information presentation are not globally
> > > > shared
> > > > > and that in many aspects, the language culture's influence
> determines
> > > > what
> > > > > is perceived to be proper, desirable, and exemplary for
> encyclopedic
> > > > > entries. As a result, we demonstrate that standards for
> encyclopedic
> > > > > knowledge are not globally agreed-upon and “objective” but local
> and
> > > very
> > > > > subjective.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 4 August 2017 at 10:18, Ziko van Dijk <zvand...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The number of pillars depends on the language version...
> > > > > And whether some rules is called pilöar not dpes not seem to be pf
> > much
> > > > > importance
> > > > > Ziko
> > > > >
> > > > > John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> schrieb am Do. 3. Aug. 2017 um
> > > > 14:42:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Five pillars are moot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > The moment you have a centralised policy you take away the
> > ability
> > > to
> > > > > > > discuss, makes decisions, and achieve consensus from the
> > community
> > > > that
> > > > > > > create the projects. Importantly you create the opportunity for
> > > > banned
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > blocked editors to decide what happens in a community.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > By having a base set of simple policies in the Incubator that
> are
> > > > > > > atuomatically created when a project starts up you give them
> the
> > > best
> > > > > > guide
> > > > > > > to establishing themselves well before that project goes live,
> > > ince a
> > > > > > > project is live it has to be allowed to develop its community.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We already have the 5 pillars which are the basis for the
> > projects,
> > > > but
> > > > > > > meta is not a place that the content creating community spends
> a
> > > lot
> > > > of
> > > > > > > time.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 3 August 2017 at 19:07, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Having centralized core policies would lessen the maintenance
> > and
> > > > > > > process,
> > > > > > > > not increase them.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Strainu <
> strain...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The core policies should be the ones pushed by board
> > > resolution,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > those should be the absolute minimum required to keep the
> > > > projects
> > > > > > > > > safe from a legal POV. Period. Otherwise, people with
> little
> > > > > > > > > understanding of small Wikipedias will try to push stuff
> from
> > > > > en.wp.
> > > > > > > > > Just recently someone was trying to have an RFC on meta on
> > all
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > different processes that en.wp has and ro.wp does not have,
> > > with
> > > > > > > > > little consideration on whether the manpower to implement,
> > let
> > > > > alone
> > > > > > > > > maintain, these processes exists. No thank you to rule
> > pushing
> > > > > > without
> > > > > > > > > local context.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Having a community take a rule from en.wp is different,
> just
> > as
> > > > > long
> > > > > > > > > as some kind of discussion happens within the community
> about
> > > it.
> > > > > > Even
> > > > > > > > > if the rule is really useless or harmful and the community
> > did
> > > > not
> > > > > > > > > realize that in the beginning, at least it can evolve
> > > differently
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > the English one. Have a centralized repository and trying
> to
> > > > change
> > > > > > > > > the rules there by consensus would be much more difficult
> for
> > > > small
> > > > > > > > > communities.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Strainu
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 2017-08-02 17:05 GMT+03:00 John Erling Blad <
> > jeb...@gmail.com
> > > >:
> > > > > > > > > > Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually the same core
> > > > content
> > > > > > > > > policies,
> > > > > > > > > > but with slightly different wording. Nearly all, because
> a
> > > lot
> > > > of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or only
> partial
> > > > > > policies.
> > > > > > > It
> > > > > > > > > > takes a lot of time to actually make them and keep them
> > > > updated.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Creating and maintaining the core content policies should
> > not
> > > > be
> > > > > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > > > that small projects should invest a lot of time in, they
> > > should
> > > > > > > simply
> > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > able to point to existing policies on Meta. The central
> > > > policies
> > > > > > > should
> > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > localized if necessary.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Checking Meta I find
> > > > > > > > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/The_no_original_research_
> > > > > policy
> > > > > > > > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Neutral_point_of_view
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I can't find anything like "Verifiability".
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation to make
> some
> > > > sound
> > > > > > > > baseline
> > > > > > > > > > policies, and with the option for local projects to
> refine
> > > > those?
> > > > > > > > Perhaps
> > > > > > > > > > with assistance from editors on Wikipedia?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Lets try to make the policies accurate, without "no
> > original
> > > > > > > research"
> > > > > > > > > > diverging into verifiability of external sources. It
> should
> > > be
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > original research in content on Wikipedia. Likewise, at
> > some
> > > > > > projects
> > > > > > > > > > neutral point of view has become "do not diverge from
> > > creators
> > > > > > point
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > view"…
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Would this be possible? It would be really nice if those
> > > > baseline
> > > > > > > > > policies
> > > > > > > > > > pages could be copied to the individual projects like
> > central
> > > > > user
> > > > > > > > pages,
> > > > > > > > > > so they would be "internal" to the projects. Thus the
> > > projects
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > more "ownership" of them.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The same thing apply to other meta projects (Wikipedia,
> > > > > Wikibooks,
> > > > > > > > > > Wiktionary, etc).
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Jeblad
> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > GN.
> > > > > > > President Wikimedia Australia
> > > > > > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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