No, the projects are not that different. Actually I believe the claim that
they are so very different is counterproductive. Now we can't make common
solutions because a few people on *some* project blocks the roll-out. For
example, we could make solutions for quality improvement, but some project
claim they have a superior process (actually very few have a real quality
process).

Violations of neutral point of view is perhaps the most troublesome. Check
out how Nazis from WWII is described in the various versions of
"Wikipedia", you will be amazed.

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 12:07 PM, Strainu <strain...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 2017-08-08 12:20 GMT+03:00 John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com>:
> > Policy should not have local variations, unless you want to create
> > something different from Wikipedia.
>
> Each version of Wikipedia is a different encyclopedia. There are
> vastly different inclusion policies and general policies between
> the different encyclopedias out there, what links them is that they
> provide information from all areas of knowledge.
>
> > This is about core content policies.
> > Those are no original research, verifiability, and neutral point of view.
> > The one most don't follow is neutral point of view, where projects
> rewrite
> > world history to focus on their own local view.
>
> Having a policy about it does not solve the issue. Having a policy one
> can't really change will make it even worse.{{citation needed}} :)
>
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 2:20 AM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> its the cultural differences that influence the policy, so who's
> culture is
> >> more significant than everyone elses that will dictate the policies.
> >>
> >> On 8 August 2017 at 08:14, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Yes there are cultural differences between wikipedias on _content_,
> but
> >> > there should be no differences on _policy_ about that content.
> >> > Note also that there are some differences on use of _facts_ that are
> >> highly
> >> > troublesome, and that comes from relaxed core policies.
> >> > Armenian genocide for example.
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > to quote, worth a read before even considering policies being global
> >> > > http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/asi.23901/abstract
> >> > >
> >> > > This article explores the relationship between linguistic culture
> and
> >> the
> >> > > > preferred standards of presenting information based on article
> >> > > > representation in major Wikipedias. Using primary research
> analysis
> >> of
> >> > > the
> >> > > > number of images, references, internal links, external links,
> words,
> >> > and
> >> > > > characters, as well as their proportions in Good and Featured
> >> articles
> >> > on
> >> > > > the eight largest Wikipedias, we discover a high diversity of
> >> > approaches
> >> > > > and format preferences, correlating with culture. We demonstrate
> that
> >> > > > high-quality standards in information presentation are not
> globally
> >> > > shared
> >> > > > and that in many aspects, the language culture's influence
> determines
> >> > > what
> >> > > > is perceived to be proper, desirable, and exemplary for
> encyclopedic
> >> > > > entries. As a result, we demonstrate that standards for
> encyclopedic
> >> > > > knowledge are not globally agreed-upon and “objective” but local
> and
> >> > very
> >> > > > subjective.
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On 4 August 2017 at 10:18, Ziko van Dijk <zvand...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > The number of pillars depends on the language version...
> >> > > > And whether some rules is called pilöar not dpes not seem to be pf
> >> much
> >> > > > importance
> >> > > > Ziko
> >> > > >
> >> > > > John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> schrieb am Do. 3. Aug. 2017
> um
> >> > > 14:42:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > Five pillars are moot.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > The moment you have a centralised policy you take away the
> >> ability
> >> > to
> >> > > > > > discuss, makes decisions, and achieve consensus from the
> >> community
> >> > > that
> >> > > > > > create the projects. Importantly you create the opportunity
> for
> >> > > banned
> >> > > > > and
> >> > > > > > blocked editors to decide what happens in a community.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > By having a base set of simple policies in the Incubator that
> are
> >> > > > > > atuomatically created when a project starts up you give them
> the
> >> > best
> >> > > > > guide
> >> > > > > > to establishing themselves well before that project goes live,
> >> > ince a
> >> > > > > > project is live it has to be allowed to develop its community.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > We already have the 5 pillars which are the basis for the
> >> projects,
> >> > > but
> >> > > > > > meta is not a place that the content creating community
> spends a
> >> > lot
> >> > > of
> >> > > > > > time.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > On 3 August 2017 at 19:07, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com
> >
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Having centralized core policies would lessen the
> maintenance
> >> and
> >> > > > > > process,
> >> > > > > > > not increase them.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Strainu <
> strain...@gmail.com>
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > The core policies should be the ones pushed by board
> >> > resolution,
> >> > > > and
> >> > > > > > > > those should be the absolute minimum required to keep the
> >> > > projects
> >> > > > > > > > safe from a legal POV. Period. Otherwise, people with
> little
> >> > > > > > > > understanding of small Wikipedias will try to push stuff
> from
> >> > > > en.wp.
> >> > > > > > > > Just recently someone was trying to have an RFC on meta on
> >> all
> >> > > the
> >> > > > > > > > different processes that en.wp has and ro.wp does not
> have,
> >> > with
> >> > > > > > > > little consideration on whether the manpower to implement,
> >> let
> >> > > > alone
> >> > > > > > > > maintain, these processes exists. No thank you to rule
> >> pushing
> >> > > > > without
> >> > > > > > > > local context.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Having a community take a rule from en.wp is different,
> just
> >> as
> >> > > > long
> >> > > > > > > > as some kind of discussion happens within the community
> about
> >> > it.
> >> > > > > Even
> >> > > > > > > > if the rule is really useless or harmful and the community
> >> did
> >> > > not
> >> > > > > > > > realize that in the beginning, at least it can evolve
> >> > differently
> >> > > > > from
> >> > > > > > > > the English one. Have a centralized repository and trying
> to
> >> > > change
> >> > > > > > > > the rules there by consensus would be much more difficult
> for
> >> > > small
> >> > > > > > > > communities.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Strainu
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > 2017-08-02 17:05 GMT+03:00 John Erling Blad <
> >> jeb...@gmail.com
> >> > >:
> >> > > > > > > > > Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually the same
> core
> >> > > content
> >> > > > > > > > policies,
> >> > > > > > > > > but with slightly different wording. Nearly all,
> because a
> >> > lot
> >> > > of
> >> > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or only
> partial
> >> > > > > policies.
> >> > > > > > It
> >> > > > > > > > > takes a lot of time to actually make them and keep them
> >> > > updated.
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > Creating and maintaining the core content policies
> should
> >> not
> >> > > be
> >> > > > > > > > something
> >> > > > > > > > > that small projects should invest a lot of time in, they
> >> > should
> >> > > > > > simply
> >> > > > > > > be
> >> > > > > > > > > able to point to existing policies on Meta. The central
> >> > > policies
> >> > > > > > should
> >> > > > > > > > be
> >> > > > > > > > > localized if necessary.
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > Checking Meta I find
> >> > > > > > > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> wiki/The_no_original_research_
> >> > > > policy
> >> > > > > > > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Neutral_point_of_view
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > I can't find anything like "Verifiability".
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation to make
> some
> >> > > sound
> >> > > > > > > baseline
> >> > > > > > > > > policies, and with the option for local projects to
> refine
> >> > > those?
> >> > > > > > > Perhaps
> >> > > > > > > > > with assistance from editors on Wikipedia?
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > Lets try to make the policies accurate, without "no
> >> original
> >> > > > > > research"
> >> > > > > > > > > diverging into verifiability of external sources. It
> should
> >> > be
> >> > > > > about
> >> > > > > > > > > original research in content on Wikipedia. Likewise, at
> >> some
> >> > > > > projects
> >> > > > > > > > > neutral point of view has become "do not diverge from
> >> > creators
> >> > > > > point
> >> > > > > > of
> >> > > > > > > > > view"…
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > Would this be possible? It would be really nice if those
> >> > > baseline
> >> > > > > > > > policies
> >> > > > > > > > > pages could be copied to the individual projects like
> >> central
> >> > > > user
> >> > > > > > > pages,
> >> > > > > > > > > so they would be "internal" to the projects. Thus the
> >> > projects
> >> > > > > would
> >> > > > > > > have
> >> > > > > > > > > more "ownership" of them.
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > The same thing apply to other meta projects (Wikipedia,
> >> > > > Wikibooks,
> >> > > > > > > > > Wiktionary, etc).
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > Jeblad
> >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> >> > > > > > --
> >> > > > > > GN.
> >> > > > > > President Wikimedia Australia
> >> > > > > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> >> > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> >> > > --
> >> > > GN.
> >> > > President Wikimedia Australia
> >> > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> >> > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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> >> --
> >> GN.
> >> President Wikimedia Australia
> >> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> >> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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