I am grateful that the moderators have taken some action, but I am
disappointed that contacting a person's employer is not yet seen as an
uncrossable line here.

Out of respect to your call for civility I will refrain from directly
responding to the person in question despite his allegations against me.
It is a mistake to frame this as a free speech issue.  It is of course in
the interests of a person engaging in bullying and harassing behavior to
claim people are trying to suppress their powerful truths, but there is no
reason we have to accept this duplicitous framing.  The content of the
message is immaterial, the behavior is the issue.  Some people may see this
as a grey area given that it was a Foundation employee, but I see it as a
slippery slope.  Seddon's job is almost certainly safe, but this might not
be the case for the next victim.  Will the poster in question decide that I
am "bullying and harassing" him and attempt to contact my employer next?

Most of my fellow board members of my chapter are the employees of US
government agencies or connected to the Foundation as an employee or a
grant recipient.   Given the unusual political climate in the US I worry
that the former group are particularly vulnerable to harassment targeting
their employment.   (Media outlets favored by the current US presidential
administration have targeted individual Wikimedia editors, including
myself, in the past.)  If participants on this list are allowed to engage
in this sort of harassment without real consequence, I will advise that my
chapter and its board members and volunteers no longer participate on this
list due to the risk to their livelihoods.


On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 5:45 AM, Shani Evenstein <shani.e...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Wikimedia-l,
>
> Rogol has been placed under moderation, but at this point no decision has
> been made to ban him from the list. As long as his messages are reasonable,
> respectful and on point, his messages will go through. We agreed that it is
> important to allow a diversity of voices to be heard, including those of
> "frequent flyers" in the list, especially as we work collaboratively on
> next steps towards a healthier community atmosphere.
>
> In addition, we are asking everyone to refrain from focusing on specific
> individuals posting to the list, put any personal issues aside and stay on
> problem. We want as many people as possible to productively and objectively
> participate in the discussion, till we draft clearer guidelines for posting
> to the list. We are aware that these guidelines will not automagically fix
> all of our issues as a global community, but we believe they will help
> reduce the noise substantially. Do keep on debating. We are trying to
> intervene as little as possible at this point and let the debate run its
> course.
>
> Best,
> Shani Evenstein, on behalf of the Wikimedia-l Admins.
>
> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, James Salsman <jsals...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Why are we having this RFC prior to the survey which was discussed at
>> length less than a year ago?
>>
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:James_Salsman#Peri
>> odic_survey_prototype
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Robert Fernandez
>> <wikigamal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Since Rogol has followed through on his threat he should be banned from
>> the
>> > list, or we should have a public statement from the moderators regarding
>> > why they will not do so.
>> >
>> > I can't imagine many actions that would have a more chilling effect on
>> > participation here than one of this list's most frequent posters
>> contacting
>> > your employer because he disagrees with what you have to say.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 7:57 AM, Joseph Seddon <jsed...@wikimedia.org>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Since you kindly emailed my line manage Rogol, I wanted to confirm
>> that my
>> >> choice of words were very carefully chosen.
>> >>
>> >> And I stand by them.
>> >>
>> >> Seddon
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 8:25 PM, Rogol Domedonfors <
>> domedonf...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Joseph
>> >> >
>> >> > I chose my wording quite carefully, and suggest that you do so too.
>> I
>> >> said
>> >> > that the proposal "involves", not "is equal to" real-life identity
>> To
>> >> the
>> >> > extent that real-life identities are involved, it is reasonable to
>> ask
>> >> how
>> >> > that personal information is going to be handled.  For some reason,
>> you
>> >> > seem keen to derail that part of the discussion by elevating a
>> quibble
>> >> over
>> >> > your hasty misunderstanding of my wording into an accusation, which I
>> >> > reject, of generalised misconduct.  If you have some comment to make
>> >> about
>> >> > the handling of personal information, please do so.
>> >> >
>> >> > May I suggest that you withdraw your original posting, apologise to
>> the
>> >> > membership of this list for the unconstructive nature of your
>> posting,
>> >> and
>> >> > to me for its aggressive, insulting and incorrect content.
>> >> Alternatively,
>> >> > perhaps you would prefer me to ask your line manager whether this is
>> the
>> >> > sort of behaviour that she expects you to exhibit in a public forum.
>> >> >
>> >> > Reginald
>> >> >
>> >> > On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 8:07 PM, Joseph Seddon <
>> jsed...@wikimedia.org>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > Real identity does not equal real-life identity. You can mask your
>> >> > > pseudonymous identity and pose as a third party similarly
>> pseudonymous
>> >> > > individual.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet)
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Seddon
>> >> > > _______________________________________________
>> >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
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>> >> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> >> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Seddon
>> >>
>> >> *Advancement Associate (Community Engagement)*
>> >> *Wikimedia Foundation*
>> >> _______________________________________________
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