hi david,

as with your accusations regarding the spending, my question would be whether
you have anything to substantiate it. Seddon was clear: it did not happen,
unless perhaps a human error in a minimal number of campaigns. If you have
that then please bring that up in a *separate* thead.

you're going more and more off topic. I suggest that we return to the question
at hand: the two stage loading problem.

lodewijk

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 8:41 AM, David Emrany <david.emr...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Joseph
>
> Thanks for that link.
>
> *NB*: I hope that the list moderators shall not censor / block / unduly
> delay this important internal conversation we are having concerning WMF
> self-financing model.
>
> Since this concerns the WMF fund-raising drives of Nov-Dec 2016, I'm
> linking to the following messages
>
> 1. *[Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Wikimedia Foundation Form 990
> for FY 2014-2015 now on-wiki*
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2016-May/084254.html>
>
> *"WMF's sheer wastage of donated money (incl. lunch
> money from Scottish schoolkids) on unnecessary litigation, I cite that
> the single most prominent case they defended in the period was
> apparently a domain name dispute (said to billed at US$ 317,490) in
> which the opposite party (a Wikipedian of long standing) who had only
> booked the domain name to prevent it from being snaffled by "cyber
> squatters"  had immediately offered to donate it WMF free of cost
> before the case began. Had WMF accepted that voluntary and good faith
> donation offer, they would have also got back 75% of the filing fees
> (a not insubstantial amount).
>
> Dave"*
>
>
> 2. *Reply by Greg Varnum (WMF) on this mailing list*
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2016-May/084276.html>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *"As for the question about why the Wikimedia Foundationspent $317,490 
> fighting "cybersquatters" that offeredto donate the domain in dispute: We’re 
> not sure where this question comes from, as we haven’t dealt with a case that 
> fits this description. We do not fight cybersquatters who offer to donate 
> their domains (especially if they are community members),and, to date, we 
> have not spent anything approachingthat much money on this type of case."*
>
>
> 3.   *Your donation keeps Wikipedia and free knowledge thriving*
> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/11/29/wikimedia-foundation-annual-fundraiser/>
>
> "Legal defense to preserve your right to access, share, and remix
> knowledge, including court battles won over Wikimedia content in Brazil
> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/09/14/rosanah-fienngo/>, Germany
> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/08/09/victory-germany-appeal-dismissed/>,
> France <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/06/20/france-legal-victory/>, and
> India."
>
> including unreplied comments on why the India court battles were not
> linked unlike the others
> So to sum up:
>
> 1. The WMF form 990 says US law firm "JonesDay" received US$ 1,742,916 for
> legal services in 2014-15
>
> 2. WMF is unprepared to specifically inform the community how much of that
> was spent on fighting a specific "cyber-squatter" from India (my own
> sources at the time said US$ 300,000 was paid by WMF to JonesDay for this
> case, mainly billable hours for JD partner Carrie Kiedrowski).
>
> 3. WMF is unprepared to specifically inform the community whether or not
> this cyber squatter (who claims to be a community member since 2003) had
> straightaway offered to donate the domain name free of cost to the WMF and
> close the case, however, WMF rejected the offer and instead ran up huge
> legal bills which were financed by donations, and probably continues to do
> so since that case is still ongoing in India's legal system .
>
> 4. I distinctly recall that when I was in India in mid-November 2016,
> attending the Opendaylight Linux forum in Bengaluru and incidentally
> discussing there the progress of this legal case with the other party who
> was an attendee, I was bombarded with WMF donation banner-ads, as a
> logged-in user, which carried through till mid-December 2016 when I was at
> Sri Lanka and Kathmandu but which curiously stopped when I reached
> Austraila.
>
> 5. So, as a community member and contributor, I would like to know how
> every dollar raised by WMF is collected, and also spent thereafter.
>
> Warmly
>
> David
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 3:52 PM, Joseph Seddon <josephsed...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> I would refer to my answer I gave on the forked thread relating to this
>> topic.
>>
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2017-Septe
>> mber/088570.html
>>
>> Regards
>> Seddon
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 3:46 PM, David Emrany <david.emr...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Sure Lodewijk,
>> >
>> > Banners from December 2016:
>> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Inline_donor_bannerbass.png
>> > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Inline_
>> > donor_bannerbass.png
>> >
>> > Comments from Seddon
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2016-
>> > December/085612.html
>> >
>> > Perhaps these banners were muted for logged-in users in USA, but I was
>> > in S-E Asia last December and it was a very unpleasant experience for
>> > me, especially while on mobile and logged in, to get a begging
>> > banner/pop-up about after every 4 pages I loaded.
>> >
>> > David
>> >
>> > On 9/6/17, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote:
>> > > Hi David,
>> > >
>> > > Would you mind elaborating on the first point? I vaguely recall test
>> > > banners being shown to logged in users, but don't recall seeing one
>> > myself
>> > > while logged in for a while.
>> > >
>> > > Best,
>> > > Lodewijk
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 2:16 PM, David Emrany <david.emr...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> a) This is incorrect
>> > >> b) how many years would "for several years" encompass?
>> > >>
>> > >> David
>> > >>
>> > >> On 9/5/17, Joseph Seddon <jsed...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>> > >> > WMF hasn't shown fundraising banners to logged in users for several
>> > >> years.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Regards
>> > >> > Seddon
>> > >>
>> >
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