hi david,

i'll respond inline.

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 10:08 AM, David Emrany <david.emr...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi lodewijk
>
> I've altered the subject line at your suggestion.
>

thank you.

>
> The name of the case (and the opposite party) is equally well known to
> Wikimedia-Legal. The first decision in the case is online at the WIPO
> website, however, since it is still under litigation, I am not linking
> to it under the WP:OUTING policies, and it would be far better that
> whoever speaks for WMF links to it.
>

entirely different topic. lets no mingle that.


>
> I am categorically saying
>
> 1) In 2016, WMF's Asian fund-raising campaign in SAARC began 2 or 3
> weeks before they started elsewhere, probably to coincide with the
> local festive season when people are receptive to giving.
>

fundraising happens all over the world at different times - nobody is
denying that, and I see no problem with that.


>
> 2) The WMF banner ads for SAARC did not discrimnate between logged-in
> users and readers.
>

that is your claim, so much is clear. Do you have anything to back that up
in other accounts. Also, this does not consider the simple possibility of
human error.


>
> 3) Perhaps WMF learned from all this and adapted it to their non-Asian
> ad banner / email solicitation campaigns which began from 29 Nov 2016
> ?.
>

I must say that seddon sounds better informed, and has a more plausable
explanation, even if it were correct.


>
> 4) Perhaps you have an inherent COI in this case to suppress the
> questionable means by how WMF funds / endowments are raised, because
> you are on the consuming side ?
>

I mostly have beef with unfounded or unhelpful criticism.


>
> If it is evidence you want, try this for intelligent hounding ?
>
> https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/wikipedias-new-email-
> campaign-is-a-master-class-in-emotional-intelligence.html


i'm missing the relevance of the email campaign?

>
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/16/jimmy_wales_
> wikipedia_fundraising_promise/



i'm sorry, but where it comes to the register, i refuse to take their
coverage serious.


>
> PS: I would certainly like specific clarity from WMF on how much was
> paid in 2014-15 for legal services "to" Jonesday and how much was paid
> "through" Jonesday.
>
>
again, straying off-topic. lets not go there.

best,
lodewijk


> warmly
>
> David
>
> On 9/11/17, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote:
> > hi david,
> >
> > as with your accusations regarding the spending, my question would be
> > whether
> > you have anything to substantiate it. Seddon was clear: it did not
> happen,
> > unless perhaps a human error in a minimal number of campaigns. If you
> have
> > that then please bring that up in a *separate* thead.
> >
> > you're going more and more off topic. I suggest that we return to the
> > question
> > at hand: the two stage loading problem.
> >
> > lodewijk
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 8:41 AM, David Emrany <david.emr...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Joseph
> >>
> >> Thanks for that link.
> >>
> >> *NB*: I hope that the list moderators shall not censor / block / unduly
> >> delay this important internal conversation we are having concerning WMF
> >> self-financing model.
> >>
> >> Since this concerns the WMF fund-raising drives of Nov-Dec 2016, I'm
> >> linking to the following messages
> >>
> >> 1. *[Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Wikimedia Foundation Form
> 990
> >> for FY 2014-2015 now on-wiki*
> >> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2016-May/084254.html
> >
> >>
> >> *"WMF's sheer wastage of donated money (incl. lunch
> >> money from Scottish schoolkids) on unnecessary litigation, I cite that
> >> the single most prominent case they defended in the period was
> >> apparently a domain name dispute (said to billed at US$ 317,490) in
> >> which the opposite party (a Wikipedian of long standing) who had only
> >> booked the domain name to prevent it from being snaffled by "cyber
> >> squatters"  had immediately offered to donate it WMF free of cost
> >> before the case began. Had WMF accepted that voluntary and good faith
> >> donation offer, they would have also got back 75% of the filing fees
> >> (a not insubstantial amount).
> >>
> >> Dave"*
> >>
> >>
> >> 2. *Reply by Greg Varnum (WMF) on this mailing list*
> >> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2016-May/084276.html
> >
> >>
> >> *"As for the question about why the Wikimedia Foundationspent $317,490
> >> fighting "cybersquatters" that offeredto donate the domain in dispute:
> >> We’re not sure where this question comes from, as we haven’t dealt with
> a
> >> case that fits this description. We do not fight cybersquatters who
> offer
> >> to donate their domains (especially if they are community members),and,
> to
> >> date, we have not spent anything approachingthat much money on this type
> >> of case."*
> >>
> >> 3.   *Your donation keeps Wikipedia and free knowledge thriving*
> >> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/11/29/wikimedia-
> foundation-annual-fundraiser/>
> >>
> >> "Legal defense to preserve your right to access, share, and remix
> >> knowledge, including court battles won over Wikimedia content in Brazil
> >> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/09/14/rosanah-fienngo/>, Germany
> >> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/08/09/victory-germany-
> appeal-dismissed/>,
> >> France <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/06/20/france-legal-victory/>,
> and
> >> India."
> >>
> >> including unreplied comments on why the India court battles were not
> >> linked unlike the others
> >> So to sum up:
> >>
> >> 1. The WMF form 990 says US law firm "JonesDay" received US$ 1,742,916
> >> for legal services in 2014-15
> >>
> >> 2. WMF is unprepared to specifically inform the community how much of
> >> that was spent on fighting a specific "cyber-squatter" from India (my
> own
> >> sources at the time said US$ 300,000 was paid by WMF to JonesDay for
> this
> >> case, mainly billable hours for JD partner Carrie Kiedrowski).
> >>
> >> 3. WMF is unprepared to specifically inform the community whether or not
> >> this cyber squatter (who claims to be a community member since 2003) had
> >> straightaway offered to donate the domain name free of cost to the WMF
> >> and close the case, however, WMF rejected the offer and instead ran up
> huge
> >> legal bills which were financed by donations, and probably continues to
> >> do so since that case is still ongoing in India's legal system .
> >>
> >> 4. I distinctly recall that when I was in India in mid-November 2016,
> >> attending the Opendaylight Linux forum in Bengaluru and incidentally
> >> discussing there the progress of this legal case with the other party
> who
> >> was an attendee, I was bombarded with WMF donation banner-ads, as a
> >> logged-in user, which carried through till mid-December 2016 when I was
> >> at Sri Lanka and Kathmandu but which curiously stopped when I reached
> >> Austraila.
> >>
> >> 5. So, as a community member and contributor, I would like to know how
> >> every dollar raised by WMF is collected, and also spent thereafter.
> >>
> >> Warmly
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 3:52 PM, Joseph Seddon <josephsed...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi David,
> >>>
> >>> I would refer to my answer I gave on the forked thread relating to this
> >>> topic.
> >>>
> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2017-Septe
> >>> mber/088570.html
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>> Seddon
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
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