And that is where the broader Wikimedia movement could come in, to provide
that pipeline of rigor and reliability, right? I don't know a solution
either, but the question for the strategy is not whether we have a solution
right now. The question would be whether the movement should work towards
finding a solution through our ecosystem (or even beyond), and support
that. Maybe at the end of this process, some information may end up on
Wikipedia - if the process proves to be reliable enough. And maybe not.

I also agree with the nuance by Charles, that we're talking about many
different types of knowledge - some of which may be more suitable than
others.

Lodewijk

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Yaroslav Blanter <ymb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, but if oral tradition is recorded at the academic standard, why should
> we be the first publication venue? Usually these people just publish books
> in academic publishing houses.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:51 PM, Peter Southwood <
> peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>
> > There may be a way to do it on another project designed for the purpose,
> > but that cannot be English Wikipedia, and I doubt that any project that
> > allows anonymous editing could manage it credibly. Oral tradition would
> at
> > least have to be sourced to the teller, and would have to be recorded by
> a
> > reliable and identified recorder, who can be held responsible for their
> due
> > diligence. This would not be an easy thing for a crowdsourced project,
> but
> > anything less would be like a magnet for everything we don't want.
> > Cheers,
> > Peter
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > Behalf Of Chandres Wikipedia
> > Sent: Wednesday, 04 October 2017 9:25 PM
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Strategy] September 28: Strategy update -
> > Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)
> >
> > I do not have a perfect solution to introduce oral traditions in
> Wikipedia
> > today, but I’m convince that we need to find a way to do it.
> >
> > Just to give you an illustration:
> >
> > Today ,a significative amount of African topics in the Wikipedia in
> French
> > rely only on the work of only few French historian. Without saying they
> are
> > not honest, I find difficult to consider that there words have really so
> > more value than the words of the Ancient of the African tribes.
> >
> > We know for sure than oral tradition will include bias, but do not forget
> > that the «  traditional western historian work » are not exempt of bias
> too.
> >
> > Charles
> >
> > PS: IMHO, I find offensive the way you define oral traditions, but it may
> > be caused by a misconception from my part.
> >
> > These are the definition I use for urban legend and oral tradition, very
> > different each other I think.
> > urban <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/urban#English> legend <
> > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/legend#English> (plural urban legends <
> > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/urban_legends#English>)
> > A widely circulated story <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/story> that is
> > untrue <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/untrue> or apocryphal <
> > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/apocryphal>, often having elements of
> > humour <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/humour> or horror <
> > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/horror>.
> > oral <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/oral#English> tradition <
> > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tradition#English> (countable <
> > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#countable> and
> > uncountable <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#
> uncountable>,
> > plural oral traditions <https://en.wiktionary.org/
> > wiki/oral_traditions#English>)
> > Cultural <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/culture> material transmitted <
> > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/transmit> orally from one generation <
> > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/generation> to another.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Le 4 oct. 2017 à 21:11, Yaroslav Blanter <ymb...@gmail.com> a écrit :
> > >
> > > You might be right, and the goal is indeed to differentiate between
> > > them. I just do not see how it could be implemented in practice. A
> > > legend is a legend, be it urban or not.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Yaroslav
> > >
> > > On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:09 PM, Chandres Wikipedia
> > > <chandres...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>> to Wikipedia. They might still be a separate WMF project, which is
> > >>> likely to be problematic (since it is really difficult to
> > >>> differentiate between say folk tales and the oral traditions which
> > >>> state that Earth is flat and that all US presidents report to the
> > >>> Zionist Occupational Government),
> > >> but
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> For me, your definition of oral tradition is the one of « urban legend
> > ».
> > >> TO my understanding, oral tradition refer to culture where the
> > >> History of the tribes/nation/people is transmit only by a spoken way
> > >> and never put on paper.  Am I wrong?
> > >>
> > >> charles
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
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