Dear All,

I can only agree with GorillaWarfare. I am also tired of having to proove 
anything concernig gender has to be perfect, when the whole principle of 
Wikipedia is that everything is always perfectible.
I think we should assume good faith and avoid <sarcastic> comments.
Doing nothing about the gender gap would not bring a positive image of our 
movement. The gap is huge and we do need quantity. Readers noticing mistakes 
sometimes become contributors (dont we need new contributors?). 
Chosing such a tone “intentionally” (citing Gnangarra) is something I find 
shocking. I think criticism is good to make progress, one does not need to fuel 
resentmemt by making it <sarcastic>.


Kind regards,

Nattes à chat / Natacha 


> Le 16 oct. 2017 à 05:51, GorillaWarfare <gorillawarfarewikipe...@gmail.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> Also, in case it's not clear from my forwarding of Emily's/Keilana's
> message, I endorse it completely and am glad she made her points.
> 
> I agree fully with Keegan and Sydney. I don't think the concerns that this
> will be overtaken by bots are well-founded; that was planned for in the
> document outlining the competition, and editors involved in this project
> will be subject to all expectations of normal editors (including not
> mass-producing poor-quality content).
> 
> As for Keegan's original post, there is a major difference between
> describing an email as sexist versus labeling the sender as a sexist. I
> believe Keegan meant the former, and I'm not sure anything he's said can be
> described as an attack on the sender so much as a valid criticism of poor
> wording.
> 
> – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
> 
> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 11:44 PM, GorillaWarfare <gorillawarfarewikipedia@
> gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Emily (User:Keilana) is having some trouble getting mails through to this
>> list, so I'm forwarding this on her behalf in case it's an issue with her
>> email address.
>> 
>> "This is some sexist bullshit. You really think we can't handle some
>> stubs? And do you really, really think that people won't try to AFD
>> everything that comes out of this contest as it is?
>> 
>> I'm sick and tired of this idea that we have to hold shit about women to a
>> higher standard than literally anything else. The encyclopedia isn't going
>> to break because, god forbid, some inexperienced newbies write a bunch of
>> stubs.
>> 
>> And so what if people think we're paying lip service to women? It's better
>> than being seen as being actively hostile to women, which, as I shouldn't
>> have to remind you, is our reputation as it currently stands."
>> 
>> – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
>> 
>>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 8:16 PM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> No worries Keegan I read it as sarcastic, given the amount of noise on
>>> here
>>> I chose my tone intentionally to draw attention to the competition, yes it
>>> looks like a wonderful idea until to look at the mechanics of comeptition
>>> given it has a start time in 2 weeks, people are being encourage to start
>>> now in sandboxes, its being advertised on banners yet it has very obvious
>>> under lying issues
>>> 
>>>   - unrealistic targets
>>>   - quantity not quality
>>>   - an expectation that competitors are required to do half of what is
>>>   expected from new editors , we should hold ourselves and expect of
>>> higher
>>>   standards than that we expect from new comers
>>>   - no methodology for notability. blp, copyright issues arent weeded out
>>>   during the event or judging
>>>   - judging is done by a bot just doing a count
>>> 
>>> To win this event all you need is a list, a script, and reliable internet
>>> connection, despite having so many signed up well experience good editors
>>> on the list.   <sarcasm> Sadly one person using a Wikidata script to
>>> create
>>> articles could be the winner,  just imagine the unimaginable
>>> frankenstienian horror that would create </sarcasm>
>>> 
>>> Any competition that relies on numbers alone is fraught with danger, the
>>> big international events  all succeed not because of numbers but because
>>> of
>>> large teams(this run by one person alone) focused on quality with the
>>> whole
>>> processes divided into manageable opt-in regional sections.  All the
>>> initiatives to focus on under represented topics need to be careful few
>>> thousands of poor quality stubs about women is more harmful than having
>>> nothing as people will perceive Wikipedia to be paying lip service to
>>> women.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 16 October 2017 at 07:18, Keegan Peterzell <keegan.w...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Gergő Tisza <gti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Keegan Peterzell <
>>>> keegan.w...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> "The nerve of these women, to think that they can write encyclopedia
>>>>>> articles on women who must inherently be non-notable! There's
>>> nothing
>>>> to
>>>>>> write about here."
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That's basically what your email says. No complaints when the
>>> subject
>>>> is
>>>>>> anything else from you, when these thematic editing are held on
>>> other
>>>>>> subjects.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Please avoid personal attacks based on hidden motivations you assume
>>>> other
>>>>> parties to have; it's contrary to the Wikimedia movement's social best
>>>>> practices [1] and bound to take discussions in unproductive
>>> directions.
>>>>> When criticizing what someone said, stick to what they actually said.
>>>>> Especially so if your accusation of bad faith would be essentially
>>>>> content-free.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ​Todd, Gnangarra, Gergő,
>>>> 
>>>> My intention, as I touched on earlier, was not to make a personal attack
>>>> but to address the tone in which I perceived the email to be written. I
>>>> don't believe Gnangarra is actually sexist. I certainly stand by my
>>>> position that the content of the initial post is unhelpful criticism and
>>>> mostly hyperbole, but I'm more than willing to apologize if my language
>>>> came across as a personal attack. I could have written it differently.
>>> So,
>>>> sorry about that.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> ~Keegan
>>>> 
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
>>>> 
>>>> This is my personal email address. Everything sent from this email
>>> address
>>>> is in a personal capacity.
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> GN.
>>> Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
>>> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
>>> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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>> 
>> 
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