This has nothing to do with Gender,

The issue is the standards required and the aim of the event not the
subjects of the content....

The event set a minimum standard at 0.75k per article created, new editors
going through articles for creation are required to have 1.5k of prose
which is twice the requirement  for this competition.

I'll repeat we should not expect more from new editors than we do from
existing editors, regardless of the subject.  With any competition we
should be expecting a higher amount than the minimum from existing
community members, mass creation of stubs is not the best way to address to
encourage those editors to take an interest in developing subjects.

Any competition of this magnitude should also have the resources to ensure
that in the process we dont do more damage



On 16 October 2017 at 13:57, Natacha Rault <n.ra...@me.com> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I can only agree with GorillaWarfare. I am also tired of having to proove
> anything concernig gender has to be perfect, when the whole principle of
> Wikipedia is that everything is always perfectible.
> I think we should assume good faith and avoid <sarcastic> comments.
> Doing nothing about the gender gap would not bring a positive image of our
> movement. The gap is huge and we do need quantity. Readers noticing
> mistakes sometimes become contributors (dont we need new contributors?).
> Chosing such a tone “intentionally” (citing Gnangarra) is something I find
> shocking. I think criticism is good to make progress, one does not need to
> fuel resentmemt by making it <sarcastic>.
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Nattes à chat / Natacha
>
>
> > Le 16 oct. 2017 à 05:51, GorillaWarfare <gorillawarfarewikipedia@
> gmail.com> a écrit :
> >
> > Also, in case it's not clear from my forwarding of Emily's/Keilana's
> > message, I endorse it completely and am glad she made her points.
> >
> > I agree fully with Keegan and Sydney. I don't think the concerns that
> this
> > will be overtaken by bots are well-founded; that was planned for in the
> > document outlining the competition, and editors involved in this project
> > will be subject to all expectations of normal editors (including not
> > mass-producing poor-quality content).
> >
> > As for Keegan's original post, there is a major difference between
> > describing an email as sexist versus labeling the sender as a sexist. I
> > believe Keegan meant the former, and I'm not sure anything he's said can
> be
> > described as an attack on the sender so much as a valid criticism of poor
> > wording.
> >
> > – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 11:44 PM, GorillaWarfare
> <gorillawarfarewikipedia@
> > gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Emily (User:Keilana) is having some trouble getting mails through to
> this
> >> list, so I'm forwarding this on her behalf in case it's an issue with
> her
> >> email address.
> >>
> >> "This is some sexist bullshit. You really think we can't handle some
> >> stubs? And do you really, really think that people won't try to AFD
> >> everything that comes out of this contest as it is?
> >>
> >> I'm sick and tired of this idea that we have to hold shit about women
> to a
> >> higher standard than literally anything else. The encyclopedia isn't
> going
> >> to break because, god forbid, some inexperienced newbies write a bunch
> of
> >> stubs.
> >>
> >> And so what if people think we're paying lip service to women? It's
> better
> >> than being seen as being actively hostile to women, which, as I
> shouldn't
> >> have to remind you, is our reputation as it currently stands."
> >>
> >> – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
> >>
> >>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 8:16 PM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> No worries Keegan I read it as sarcastic, given the amount of noise on
> >>> here
> >>> I chose my tone intentionally to draw attention to the competition,
> yes it
> >>> looks like a wonderful idea until to look at the mechanics of
> comeptition
> >>> given it has a start time in 2 weeks, people are being encourage to
> start
> >>> now in sandboxes, its being advertised on banners yet it has very
> obvious
> >>> under lying issues
> >>>
> >>>   - unrealistic targets
> >>>   - quantity not quality
> >>>   - an expectation that competitors are required to do half of what is
> >>>   expected from new editors , we should hold ourselves and expect of
> >>> higher
> >>>   standards than that we expect from new comers
> >>>   - no methodology for notability. blp, copyright issues arent weeded
> out
> >>>   during the event or judging
> >>>   - judging is done by a bot just doing a count
> >>>
> >>> To win this event all you need is a list, a script, and reliable
> internet
> >>> connection, despite having so many signed up well experience good
> editors
> >>> on the list.   <sarcasm> Sadly one person using a Wikidata script to
> >>> create
> >>> articles could be the winner,  just imagine the unimaginable
> >>> frankenstienian horror that would create </sarcasm>
> >>>
> >>> Any competition that relies on numbers alone is fraught with danger,
> the
> >>> big international events  all succeed not because of numbers but
> because
> >>> of
> >>> large teams(this run by one person alone) focused on quality with the
> >>> whole
> >>> processes divided into manageable opt-in regional sections.  All the
> >>> initiatives to focus on under represented topics need to be careful few
> >>> thousands of poor quality stubs about women is more harmful than having
> >>> nothing as people will perceive Wikipedia to be paying lip service to
> >>> women.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 16 October 2017 at 07:18, Keegan Peterzell <keegan.w...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Gergő Tisza <gti...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Keegan Peterzell <
> >>>> keegan.w...@gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "The nerve of these women, to think that they can write encyclopedia
> >>>>>> articles on women who must inherently be non-notable! There's
> >>> nothing
> >>>> to
> >>>>>> write about here."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> That's basically what your email says. No complaints when the
> >>> subject
> >>>> is
> >>>>>> anything else from you, when these thematic editing are held on
> >>> other
> >>>>>> subjects.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Please avoid personal attacks based on hidden motivations you assume
> >>>> other
> >>>>> parties to have; it's contrary to the Wikimedia movement's social
> best
> >>>>> practices [1] and bound to take discussions in unproductive
> >>> directions.
> >>>>> When criticizing what someone said, stick to what they actually said.
> >>>>> Especially so if your accusation of bad faith would be essentially
> >>>>> content-free.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ​Todd, Gnangarra, Gergő,
> >>>>
> >>>> My intention, as I touched on earlier, was not to make a personal
> attack
> >>>> but to address the tone in which I perceived the email to be written.
> I
> >>>> don't believe Gnangarra is actually sexist. I certainly stand by my
> >>>> position that the content of the initial post is unhelpful criticism
> and
> >>>> mostly hyperbole, but I'm more than willing to apologize if my
> language
> >>>> came across as a personal attack. I could have written it differently.
> >>> So,
> >>>> sorry about that.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> ~Keegan
> >>>>
> >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
> >>>>
> >>>> This is my personal email address. Everything sent from this email
> >>> address
> >>>> is in a personal capacity.
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> GN.
> >>> Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> >>> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> >>> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
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-- 
GN.
Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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