Why is my message to this thread getting rejected? It says "Message
rejected by filter rule match"?

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 9:30 AM, Yaroslav Blanter <ymb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I guess we are discussing this contest:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Women_
> in_Red/The_World_Contest
>
> because this is the one which starts in two weeks.
>
> For the full disclosure, I have absolutely no relation to the contest and
> will likely not participate.
>
> First, this is an internal affair of the English Wikipedia. I am not sure
> why it should be discussed on wikimedia-l.
>
> Second, we have seen many writing contests and drives and personal
> initiatives on Wikipedia. Some were successful, some were complete
> disaster. Whether the contest/drive is successful depends on the
> organizers, and, in particular, on whether the goals are set properly.
>
> This one aims at 10K (not 100K) new articles in two months. This is
> realistic and, even if some articles are substandard, will not disturb the
> flow of Wikipedia. I recognize a lot of people who signed up as established
> editors who certainly know how to source articles. The rules of the contest
> establish 1K of pure prose (it indeed stated in one place 0.75K, which I
> changed to align with what is written in the  rules of the contest.) They
> also specify that the articles must be properly sourced. A fully sourced 1K
> prose is a solid stub, and I do not see how it could harm Wikipedia. The
> organizer is Dr. Blofeld, who previously organized events of similar scope
> which were successful. (I for example participated in the Arfica destubaton
> last year and won a prize; I closely monitored the quality and I saw how
> Dr. Blofeld handled the quality control, I have no issues with that).
>
> To summarize, at this point I do not see any reasons for alarm.
>
> I would like, however, to address two more points which were raised in
> this topic. First, the monetary prizes. I personally oppose giving monetary
> prizes for writing Wikipedia articles. When I participated in the Africa
> destubaton I mentioned above, I made it very clear that I am not going to
> accept a monetary prize. After I won the contest in the nomination of the
> articles on Mozambique, I had an Amazon voucher sent to me, which I spent
> to buy an article on the history of Mozambique. So I am definitely not a
> fan of monetary prizes, on the other hand, this is not the first contest
> which offers monetary prizes, the prizes are of a scope comparable to what
> what offered at similar contests previously, and if the issue has to be
> discussed, it has to be discussed in a broader scope, not in relation to
> this particular contest.
>
> Second, I am not sure how I should interpret the opinions that the
> articles about women should be sourced worse than the articles about men,
> but currently there is consensus on the English Wikipedia on how the
> notability and verifiability policies should be implemented (I guess this
> could be different in other projects). The community is currently not
> accepting unsourced and poorly sourced articles, we have the trial running
> for autoconfirmed article creation, and the queue of new page patrol, which
> is now 13K articles, slowly goes down. (We actually struggled a lot to get
> it going down, for several years). Any unsourced article about living
> people gets PRODded within hours. No action which would attempt to revert
> this trend is going to be accepted. It is not about woman vs man or Africa
> vs Europe, it is about verifiability.
>
> Having said this, if there is a competition suddenly up in the air, aimed
> at 100K articles, poorly organized and with unrealistically weak
> requirements, I would definitely call it a road to disaster. It is just
> what I referenced is not this.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 8:56 AM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This has nothing to do with Gender,
>>
>> The issue is the standards required and the aim of the event not the
>> subjects of the content....
>>
>> The event set a minimum standard at 0.75k per article created, new editors
>> going through articles for creation are required to have 1.5k of prose
>> which is twice the requirement  for this competition.
>>
>> I'll repeat we should not expect more from new editors than we do from
>> existing editors, regardless of the subject.  With any competition we
>> should be expecting a higher amount than the minimum from existing
>> community members, mass creation of stubs is not the best way to address
>> to
>> encourage those editors to take an interest in developing subjects.
>>
>> Any competition of this magnitude should also have the resources to ensure
>> that in the process we dont do more damage
>>
>>
>>
>> On 16 October 2017 at 13:57, Natacha Rault <n.ra...@me.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Dear All,
>> >
>> > I can only agree with GorillaWarfare. I am also tired of having to
>> proove
>> > anything concernig gender has to be perfect, when the whole principle of
>> > Wikipedia is that everything is always perfectible.
>> > I think we should assume good faith and avoid <sarcastic> comments.
>> > Doing nothing about the gender gap would not bring a positive image of
>> our
>> > movement. The gap is huge and we do need quantity. Readers noticing
>> > mistakes sometimes become contributors (dont we need new contributors?).
>> > Chosing such a tone “intentionally” (citing Gnangarra) is something I
>> find
>> > shocking. I think criticism is good to make progress, one does not need
>> to
>> > fuel resentmemt by making it <sarcastic>.
>> >
>> >
>> > Kind regards,
>> >
>> > Nattes à chat / Natacha
>> >
>> >
>> > > Le 16 oct. 2017 à 05:51, GorillaWarfare <gorillawarfarewikipedia@
>> > gmail.com> a écrit :
>> > >
>> > > Also, in case it's not clear from my forwarding of Emily's/Keilana's
>> > > message, I endorse it completely and am glad she made her points.
>> > >
>> > > I agree fully with Keegan and Sydney. I don't think the concerns that
>> > this
>> > > will be overtaken by bots are well-founded; that was planned for in
>> the
>> > > document outlining the competition, and editors involved in this
>> project
>> > > will be subject to all expectations of normal editors (including not
>> > > mass-producing poor-quality content).
>> > >
>> > > As for Keegan's original post, there is a major difference between
>> > > describing an email as sexist versus labeling the sender as a sexist.
>> I
>> > > believe Keegan meant the former, and I'm not sure anything he's said
>> can
>> > be
>> > > described as an attack on the sender so much as a valid criticism of
>> poor
>> > > wording.
>> > >
>> > > – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
>> > >
>> > > On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 11:44 PM, GorillaWarfare
>> > <gorillawarfarewikipedia@
>> > > gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Emily (User:Keilana) is having some trouble getting mails through to
>> > this
>> > >> list, so I'm forwarding this on her behalf in case it's an issue with
>> > her
>> > >> email address.
>> > >>
>> > >> "This is some sexist bullshit. You really think we can't handle some
>> > >> stubs? And do you really, really think that people won't try to AFD
>> > >> everything that comes out of this contest as it is?
>> > >>
>> > >> I'm sick and tired of this idea that we have to hold shit about women
>> > to a
>> > >> higher standard than literally anything else. The encyclopedia isn't
>> > going
>> > >> to break because, god forbid, some inexperienced newbies write a
>> bunch
>> > of
>> > >> stubs.
>> > >>
>> > >> And so what if people think we're paying lip service to women? It's
>> > better
>> > >> than being seen as being actively hostile to women, which, as I
>> > shouldn't
>> > >> have to remind you, is our reputation as it currently stands."
>> > >>
>> > >> – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
>> > >>
>> > >>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 8:16 PM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> No worries Keegan I read it as sarcastic, given the amount of noise
>> on
>> > >>> here
>> > >>> I chose my tone intentionally to draw attention to the competition,
>> > yes it
>> > >>> looks like a wonderful idea until to look at the mechanics of
>> > comeptition
>> > >>> given it has a start time in 2 weeks, people are being encourage to
>> > start
>> > >>> now in sandboxes, its being advertised on banners yet it has very
>> > obvious
>> > >>> under lying issues
>> > >>>
>> > >>>   - unrealistic targets
>> > >>>   - quantity not quality
>> > >>>   - an expectation that competitors are required to do half of what
>> is
>> > >>>   expected from new editors , we should hold ourselves and expect of
>> > >>> higher
>> > >>>   standards than that we expect from new comers
>> > >>>   - no methodology for notability. blp, copyright issues arent
>> weeded
>> > out
>> > >>>   during the event or judging
>> > >>>   - judging is done by a bot just doing a count
>> > >>>
>> > >>> To win this event all you need is a list, a script, and reliable
>> > internet
>> > >>> connection, despite having so many signed up well experience good
>> > editors
>> > >>> on the list.   <sarcasm> Sadly one person using a Wikidata script to
>> > >>> create
>> > >>> articles could be the winner,  just imagine the unimaginable
>> > >>> frankenstienian horror that would create </sarcasm>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Any competition that relies on numbers alone is fraught with danger,
>> > the
>> > >>> big international events  all succeed not because of numbers but
>> > because
>> > >>> of
>> > >>> large teams(this run by one person alone) focused on quality with
>> the
>> > >>> whole
>> > >>> processes divided into manageable opt-in regional sections.  All the
>> > >>> initiatives to focus on under represented topics need to be careful
>> few
>> > >>> thousands of poor quality stubs about women is more harmful than
>> having
>> > >>> nothing as people will perceive Wikipedia to be paying lip service
>> to
>> > >>> women.
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On 16 October 2017 at 07:18, Keegan Peterzell <
>> keegan.w...@gmail.com>
>> > >>> wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>>>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Gergő Tisza <gti...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Keegan Peterzell <
>> > >>>> keegan.w...@gmail.com>
>> > >>>>> wrote:
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>> "The nerve of these women, to think that they can write
>> encyclopedia
>> > >>>>>> articles on women who must inherently be non-notable! There's
>> > >>> nothing
>> > >>>> to
>> > >>>>>> write about here."
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> That's basically what your email says. No complaints when the
>> > >>> subject
>> > >>>> is
>> > >>>>>> anything else from you, when these thematic editing are held on
>> > >>> other
>> > >>>>>> subjects.
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> Please avoid personal attacks based on hidden motivations you
>> assume
>> > >>>> other
>> > >>>>> parties to have; it's contrary to the Wikimedia movement's social
>> > best
>> > >>>>> practices [1] and bound to take discussions in unproductive
>> > >>> directions.
>> > >>>>> When criticizing what someone said, stick to what they actually
>> said.
>> > >>>>> Especially so if your accusation of bad faith would be essentially
>> > >>>>> content-free.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> ​Todd, Gnangarra, Gergő,
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> My intention, as I touched on earlier, was not to make a personal
>> > attack
>> > >>>> but to address the tone in which I perceived the email to be
>> written.
>> > I
>> > >>>> don't believe Gnangarra is actually sexist. I certainly stand by my
>> > >>>> position that the content of the initial post is unhelpful
>> criticism
>> > and
>> > >>>> mostly hyperbole, but I'm more than willing to apologize if my
>> > language
>> > >>>> came across as a personal attack. I could have written it
>> differently.
>> > >>> So,
>> > >>>> sorry about that.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> --
>> > >>>> ~Keegan
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> This is my personal email address. Everything sent from this email
>> > >>> address
>> > >>>> is in a personal capacity.
>> > >>>> _______________________________________________
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>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> --
>> > >>> GN.
>> > >>> Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
>> > >>> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
>> > >>> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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>>
>> --
>> GN.
>> Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
>> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
>> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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