My opinion is that such projects should be supported, we should encourage
'be bold'. That being said, people planning projects at a large scale
should communicate with the concerned communities first. As such, the
concerns raised in this thread for example would have been raised during
the planning phase of that project and hopefully addressed. There is a
place in the application forms for grants for projects that asks to list
"Community Notification". The Grant Committee should look more closely at
that section and ensure that the communities have been notified before
granting any fund.

JP



On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 2:03 PM, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org>
wrote:

> I understand from the original email that the venue was chosen based on the
> fact that it was WMF-funded as a project. I am guessing he's trying to pull
> that leverage.
>
> The topic is more generic though: should we support projects that are
> considered by some to be a little rough on the edges, or should we only
> pick 'safe' projects that will land well with the community. And how much
> of 'be bold' can be applied to projects that operate at a somewhat larger
> scale.
>
> While this particular topic seems enwp specific, its theme isn't.
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 10:34 AM, Jean-Philippe Béland <
> jpbel...@wikimedia.ca> wrote:
>
> > There is so many threads on this list that are only about English
> Wikipedia
> > like it is the centre of the world... Why other communities are able to
> > keep their internal discussions internal and not this community?
> >
> > Jean-Philippe Béland
> > Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 1:20 PM, Pax Ahimsa Gethen <
> > list-wikime...@funcrunch.org> wrote:
> >
> > > The people whose opinion should most matter in determining whether a
> > > comment is sexist are women. Not men, and not non-binary transmasculine
> > > people like myself.
> > >
> > > I support and echo Emily and Molly's earlier comments on this thread:
> > >
> > >
> > > Also, in case it's not clear from my forwarding of Emily's/Keilana's
> > >> message, I endorse it completely and am glad she made her points.
> > >>
> > >> I agree fully with Keegan and Sydney. I don't think the concerns that
> > this
> > >> will be overtaken by bots are well-founded; that was planned for in
> the
> > >> document outlining the competition, and editors involved in this
> project
> > >> will be subject to all expectations of normal editors (including not
> > >> mass-producing poor-quality content).
> > >>
> > >> As for Keegan's original post, there is a major difference between
> > >> describing an email as sexist versus labeling the sender as a sexist.
> I
> > >> believe Keegan meant the former, and I'm not sure anything he's said
> can
> > >> be
> > >> described as an attack on the sender so much as a valid criticism of
> > poor
> > >> wording.
> > >>
> > >> – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 11:44 PM, GorillaWarfare
> > <gorillawarfarewikipedia@
> > >> gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Emily (User:Keilana) is having some trouble getting mails through to
> > this
> > >> list, so I'm forwarding this on her behalf in case it's an issue with
> > her
> > >> email address.
> > >>
> > >> "This is some sexist bullshit. You really think we can't handle some
> > >> stubs? And do you really, really think that people won't try to AFD
> > >> everything that comes out of this contest as it is?
> > >>
> > >> I'm sick and tired of this idea that we have to hold shit about women
> > to a
> > >> higher standard than literally anything else. The encyclopedia isn't
> > going
> > >> to break because, god forbid, some inexperienced newbies write a bunch
> > of
> > >> stubs.
> > >>
> > >> And so what if people think we're paying lip service to women? It's
> > better
> > >> than being seen as being actively hostile to women, which, as I
> > shouldn't
> > >> have to remind you, is our reputation as it currently stands."
> > >>
> > >> – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
> > >>
> > >
> > > - Pax aka Funcrunch
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/16/17 10:11 AM, Todd Allen wrote:
> > >
> > >> Is that still going on?
> > >>
> > >> I'm against sexism and all for improving coverage of women on
> Wikipedia.
> > >> I've helped to encourage events toward that end, and they've turned
> out
> > >> pretty well. We now have quite a few more articles, for example, on
> > women
> > >> involved as pioneers in outdoor sports and activities because of them.
> > >>
> > >> But I'm unsure how asking the question "Is it wise to offer money in
> > >> exchange for creating large numbers of articles without consideration
> of
> > >> quality?" or "Will this effort have the intended result?" is sexist.
> The
> > >> same question would apply if the proposed articles were about Russian
> > >> literature or asteroids. It is not sexist to ask the question just
> > because
> > >> of what the subject happens to be.
> > >>
> > >> I think that needs to be discussed, not sidetracked by calling people
> > >> sexists. If people really were making sexist statements, I'd be all
> for
> > >> shutting that crap down. But I've seen not one such statement in this
> > >> thread.
> > >>
> > >> Todd
> > >>
> > >> On Oct 16, 2017 10:28 AM, "Robert Fernandez" <wikigamal...@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> So those who call out sexism are the real sexists, amirite?
> > >>>
> > >>> I am fed up with this double standard in the way we talk about these
> > >>> issues.  Some people are allowed to make broad, unsupported, sweeping
> > >>> generalizations about the motives and actions of others and that's
> > >>> considered just fine, but if you call them out in even the gentlest
> > tones
> > >>> it's treated as some horrific personal attack, and censure and
> > apologies
> > >>> are demanded.  We've culturally internalized sexism so much that even
> > the
> > >>> way we talk about sexism is sexist.
> > >>>
> > >>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Vi to <vituzzu.w...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> But just a note: using the same behavior of phenomena you're trying
> to
> > >>>> contast is, per se, a clear defeat.
> > >>>> To be more clear, blind -because you obviously don't know *nothing*
> > >>>> about
> > >>>> their backgrounds- vilification of other's opinions is,
> incidentally,
> > >>>> one
> > >>>> the of the main instruments of "cultural" sexism.
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > > --
> > > Pax Ahimsa Gethen | p...@funcrunch.org | http://funcrunch.org |
> Pronouns:
> > > they/them/their
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Jean-Philippe Béland
> >
> > [image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
> > <https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=fr>, chapitre national
> > soutenant Wikipédia
> > Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
> > <https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=en>, national chapter
> > supporting Wikipedia
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-- 

Jean-Philippe Béland

[image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
<https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=fr>, chapitre national
soutenant Wikipédia
Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
<https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=en>, national chapter
supporting Wikipedia
535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec)  H2L 2P3,jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
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