So will there be a broader discussion about the future of the
Wikimedia Conference that's open to people who are not attending?

I could certainly see a group of people in a conference hotel for a
weekend deciding that they are a vital forum for important decisions
about the future of the movement, but that wouldn't mean that it's a
good idea to take that at face value without input from the 10,000 or
so people who weren't invited to the conference. :)

Chris

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 10:38 AM, Cornelius Kibelka
<cornelius.kibe...@wikimedia.de> wrote:
> Hi Lodewijk,
>
> One of the goals for the 2018 conference will be to come to an agreement
> upon the ultimate goal, structure and set-up for the Wikimedia Conference
> in the longer future. The outcomes of these conversations will also depend
> on the agreements we achieve during phase 2 of the strategy process, for
> example in terms of roles and responsibilities of movement organizations.
> By slightly adjusting the 2018 participation criteria (we're talking about
> 10 people), we do not mean to change the overall nature of the conference
> for the future. It's just a quick fix for the symptoms, not a solution to
> the overall.
>
> Best regards
> Cornelius
>
> On 24 October 2017 at 18:29, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote:
>
>> While it is true that there are now for *some* languages also organizations
>> that have it as their specific goal to support those (Amical has been doing
>> that for Catalan for a long time, though), this is not the case for most
>> major languages. In the whole field of affiliates, including user groups,
>> most are tied to a geography, rather than other factors.
>>
>> Even in an outreach, engagement, communication perspective, we have always
>> held off on calling the affiliates 'representative'. In this context it
>> would even go a step further: it would make them *politically*
>> representative. This could be particularly painful when an editing
>> community does not feel represented (for example, because the user group
>> that has their language as focus, if any, is the subset of users that likes
>> to focus on a subset of topics that is not the focus of most of the
>> community.
>>
>> While lines between focus areas blur, and our movement diversifies, this
>> does not necessarily mean the roles changed that much.
>>
>> If your goal really is to make it representative, then you either have to
>> make affiliates more representative, or you have to invite other people.
>>
>> I'm looking forward to Cornelius' response on what the underlying goal is
>> for this change, because I suspect his proposed change of wording is not
>> cutting it yet.
>>
>> Lodewijk
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 4:56 AM, Joseph Seddon <jsed...@wikimedia.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > The conference was born from the old affiliate model but that is not
>> > representative of where we are now and for all its flaws and advantages,
>> > the affiliate model has become very different.
>> >
>> > Affiliates in some cases really do represent, projects, languages and
>> > topics to varying degrees.
>> >
>> > In some cases maybe affiliates really should be their local language
>> > representatives. There is a difference though between representative in
>> an
>> > outreach, engagement or communication role with that of legal
>> > representative.
>> >
>> > The line blurs with each passing year and particularly as affiliates gain
>> > in their experience. Maybe the conference should reflect the new roles
>> and
>> > responsibilities being carved out by the evolving affiliate model.
>> >
>> > Seddon
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 10:45 AM, Michael Maggs <mich...@maggs.name>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Agreed. This would change the conference significantly. Its purpose has
>> > > always been to discuss matters of common interest to movement
>> > > *organisations*.  Organisations attend on their own behalf and not as
>> > > representatives for any wider groups such as speakers of a specific
>> > > language, or editors of any particular Wikipedia.
>> > >
>> > > Michael
>> > >
>> > > > On 23 Oct 2017, at 19:54, Isaac Olatunde <reachout2is...@gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > I share Lodewijk's concerns here. My understanding is that local
>> > chapters
>> > > > have no control/authority over any language community. Unless we want
>> > > > language communities to be under the control of local chapters or
>> user
>> > > > groups,  language communities should be allowed to choose their
>> > > > representatives if they must be represented.
>> > > >
>> > > > Regards,
>> > > >
>> > > > Isaac.
>> > > >
>> > > > On Oct 23, 2017 7:16 PM, "Lodewijk" <lodew...@effeietsanders.org>
>> > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > That all depends on the goals that the conference sets itself, as
>> > always
>> > > :)
>> > > >
>> > > > As I understood it, the conference is intended for structured and
>> > > organized
>> > > > groups, rather than to be a representative forum for the whole
>> > movement.
>> > > In
>> > > > 2017, I understood there to be mostly two events taking place in the
>> > same
>> > > > location - with some overlap in program. In that sense, this was
>> quite
>> > a
>> > > > unique situation because of the strategic process.
>> > > >
>> > > > The first question would be whether you accept each challenge as a
>> > goal.
>> > > If
>> > > > being representative of the whole movement becomes the goal, the
>> > > structure
>> > > > probably needs to be overhauled much more, and the default invitation
>> > for
>> > > > all groups may have to be reconsidered. One representative from the
>> > > > Japanese community wouldn't cut it, then (for example).
>> > > >
>> > > > On the other side, I could also imagine a different goal, which would
>> > be
>> > > to
>> > > > fill certain gaps in input diversity from the participants. This
>> could
>> > be
>> > > > input from certain language communities, or from certain cultures
>> where
>> > > we
>> > > > even lack readership. This would make more sense to me - as it would
>> > not
>> > > > imply a representation as much. In part it would lead to a similar
>> > > > consideration and outcome, but it would force you to also consider
>> > other
>> > > > areas where input is lacking from. For example, allied movements or
>> > > project
>> > > > communities beyond Wikipedia (for example, the collective of
>> developing
>> > > > language communities in Africa or communities that are
>> > > government-blocked -
>> > > > of which I'm uncertain if they are covered by affiliates). This would
>> > > also
>> > > > send the message to the communities you ask to send a representative
>> > what
>> > > > you expect of such participant (if that would indeed be your goal).
>> > > >
>> > > > There could be many other goals of course, that you (plural) could
>> have
>> > > in
>> > > > mind. I'm not sure which applies best. I would suggest not to deviate
>> > > from
>> > > > the official line that chapters don't represent language communities,
>> > > > though. That is, unless this official line has changed.
>> > > >
>> > > > Warmly,
>> > > > Lodewijk
>> > > >
>> > > > On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Cornelius Kibelka <
>> > > > cornelius.kibe...@wikimedia.de> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> Hi Lodewijk, hi JP,
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Over the last years, we received the feedback that the Wikimedia
>> > > > Conference
>> > > >> would not be as (globally) representative as it could or should be.
>> > For
>> > > > the
>> > > >> Wikimedia Conference 2017, several “Community Leaders” were invited
>> to
>> > > the
>> > > >> conference to be heard for the Movement Strategy process, but the
>> > > >> selection/invitation process was not as clear as it could have been.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> To be more representative on a global scale and to have more
>> different
>> > > >> people from different regions present at the conference, we needed
>> > > clear,
>> > > >> transparent and non arbitrary criteria. However, there is no
>> solution
>> > > that
>> > > >> covers every possible challenge. Therefore, we chose to give this
>> > > approach
>> > > >> – with clear criteria – at least a try for the Wikimedia Conference
>> > > 2018.
>> > > >> Also, as we expect more changes in the Movement in the upcoming
>> year,
>> > > this
>> > > >> approach is a try for 2018 only, as an overhaul of the whole concept
>> > of
>> > > > the
>> > > >> Wikimedia Conference will be needed anyway.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Additionally, I want to highlight this, because this was criticized
>> in
>> > > the
>> > > >> past as well, all regularly eligible affiliates may send at least
>> two
>> > > >> representatives.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I’m aware that this approach implies challenges, though. I’m happy
>> to
>> > > >> receive suggestions on how to come up with equally clear and
>> > transparent
>> > > >> criteria.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Best regards,
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Cornelius
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> On 23 October 2017 at 19:37, Jean-Philippe Béland <
>> > > jpbel...@wikimedia.ca>
>> > > >> wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >>> I share the questions of Lodewijk
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 19:22 Cornelius Kibelka, <
>> > > >>> cornelius.kibe...@wikimedia.de> wrote:
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>> Of course, I meant:
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> "The registration process will start on November 24, *2017* and
>> will
>> > > >> end
>> > > >>>> sharply (no exceptions), on January 15, 2018."
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Thank you
>> > > >>>> Cornelius
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> --
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Cornelius Kibelka
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Program and Engagement Coordinator (PEC)
>> > > >>>> for the Wikimedia Conference
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Am 23.10.2017 18:04 schrieb "Cornelius Kibelka" <
>> > > >>>> cornelius.kibe...@wikimedia.de>:
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>> Dear Wikimedians, dear representatives of Wikimedia affiliates,
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> A few weeks ago, we announced that the next Wikimedia Conference
>> > > > will
>> > > >>>> take
>> > > >>>>> place from April 20 to 22, 2018 at the Mercure Hotel in
>> > > >> Berlin-Neukölln
>> > > >>>>> (same location as in 2017). This email contains information about
>> > > > the
>> > > >>>>> program themes and the Eligibility Criteria for invited
>> affiliates
>> > > >>>>> including the relevant reporting deadlines.
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> == Program Themes ==
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> As in the previous editions of the conference, the Wikimedia
>> > > >> Conference
>> > > >>>>> 2018 will again focus on three core themes.
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>>   -
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>>   Movement Strategy: In November 2017, phase 2 of the Wikimedia
>> > > >>> Movement
>> > > >>>>>   Strategy Process will start. Its main goal will be to answer
>> the
>> > > >>>> question
>> > > >>>>>   "How do we implement the strategic direction", which means
>> > > >>>> identifying the
>> > > >>>>>   roles and resources needed for execution, and the activities it
>> > > >>>> involves.
>> > > >>>>>   In order to ensure participation from the organized part of the
>> > > >>>> movement in
>> > > >>>>>   this next phase, we will again host a three-day track on
>> movement
>> > > >>>> strategy.
>> > > >>>>>   This track will be designed together with the Wikimedia
>> > > >> Foundation.
>> > > >>>>>   -
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>>   Partnerships in the Wikimedia Movement: Wikimedia organizations
>> > > >> and
>> > > >>>>>   groups have a wide variety of experiences and knowledge in
>> > > > working
>> > > >>>> with
>> > > >>>>>   partners to achieve our mission. Based on the conversation at
>> the
>> > > >>> last
>> > > >>>>>   Wikimedia Conference, Wikimania, and regional Wikimedia
>> > > >> conferences,
>> > > >>>> we aim
>> > > >>>>>   to continue to offer a space for conversations, experience
>> > > > sharing
>> > > >>> and
>> > > >>>>>   learning around partnerships within and outside the Wikimedia
>> > > >>>> movement.
>> > > >>>>>   This track will be designed together with the Wikimedia
>> > > >> Foundation’s
>> > > >>>> Global
>> > > >>>>>   Reach & Partnerships team, WMDE’s Partnerships & Development
>> team
>> > > >>> and
>> > > >>>> the
>> > > >>>>>   volunteer “Partnerships group”.
>> > > >>>>>   -
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>>   Capacity Building & Learning: The Wikimedia Conference
>> currently
>> > > >> is
>> > > >>>>>   one of the main spaces for learning and sharing among Wikimedia
>> > > >>>> affiliates.
>> > > >>>>>   Again, we will host a track with sessions that are designed
>> > > >>> according
>> > > >>>> to
>> > > >>>>>   the participants’ needs, wishes and experiences. This track
>> will
>> > > >> be
>> > > >>>>>   designed in close consultation with WMF’s Learning & Evaluation
>> > > >>> team,
>> > > >>>> and
>> > > >>>>>   will complement the pre-conference Learning Days.
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> == Eligibility Criteria ==
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> The eligibility criteria for participating in the Wikimedia
>> > > >> Conference
>> > > >>>>> 2018 are aligned to the Affiliates’ Agreements with the Wikimedia
>> > > >>>>> Foundation.
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> Chapters, Thematic Organizations and User Groups must have shown
>> > > >> signs
>> > > >>> of
>> > > >>>>> recent activity (within the last six months) and be up-to-date on
>> > > >> their
>> > > >>>>> reporting by the eligibility deadline (December 15, 2017).
>> > Moreover,
>> > > >>>>> affiliates need to have been officially recognized by the
>> Wikimedia
>> > > >>>>> Foundation before April 19, 2017.
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> == Participant number regulation ==
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>>   -
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>>   Chapters, Thematic Organizations and User Groups may send two
>> > > >>>>>   delegates. Chapters and Thematic Organizations which employ at
>> > > >> least
>> > > >>>> 0.5
>> > > >>>>>   FTE by Sep 1, 2017, may send one additional delegate who is a
>> > > > paid
>> > > >>>> staff
>> > > >>>>>   member.
>> > > >>>>>   -
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>>   Allied organizations may send two delegates.
>> > > >>>>>   -
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>>   The biggest ten language/project communities (by numbers of
>> > > > active
>> > > >>>>>   editors [>5 edits/month]) that are not represented by any
>> > > >> affiliate,
>> > > >>>> or
>> > > >>>>>   have an affiliate, which is not eligible because it was
>> > > > recognized
>> > > >>>> after
>> > > >>>>>   April 19, 2017, may send one delegate.
>> > > >>>>>   -
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>>      As per September 2017, the biggest communities without an
>> > > >>>>>      (eligible) affiliate representation are the Japanese,
>> > > >> Vietnamese,
>> > > >>>> Tamil,
>> > > >>>>>      Bengali, Slovak, Croatian, Hindi and Malay, Wikimedia
>> Commons
>> > > >> and
>> > > >>>>>      Wikivoyage communities.
>> > > >>>>>      -
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>>      The user groups West Bengal Wikimedians User Group (for the
>> > > >>> Bengali
>> > > >>>>>      community), Hindi Wikimedians User Group (for the Hindi
>> > > >>>> community), Wikimedia
>> > > >>>>>      Community User Group Malaysia (for the Malay community), as
>> > > >> well
>> > > >>> as
>> > > >>>>>      the Commons Photographers User Group (for the Wikimedia
>> > > > Commons
>> > > >>>>>      community) and the Wikivoyage Association (for the
>> Wikivoyage
>> > > >>>>>      communities) may send one delegate. For the language
>> > > >> communities
>> > > >>>> (Japanese,
>> > > >>>>>      Vietnamese, Tamil, Slovak, Croatian), decision finding and
>> > > >> making
>> > > >>>> process
>> > > >>>>>      on who will be the one person sent to the conference, need
>> to
>> > > >> be
>> > > >>>> made in
>> > > >>>>>      the public (on-wiki).
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> == Registration timeline ==
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> The registration process will start on November 24, 2018 and will
>> > > > end
>> > > >>>>> sharply (no exceptions), on January 15, 2018. The link will be
>> > > >> provided
>> > > >>>> on
>> > > >>>>> Meta.[1]
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> If you have any questions regarding the registration process or
>> the
>> > > >>>>> Wikimedia Conference, please
>> > > >>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Conference,+please&entry=
>> gmail&source=g
>> > >
>> > > >> do
>> > > >>>> not hesitate to send us an e-mail to
>> > > >>>>> wm...@wikimedia.de.
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> Warm regards,
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> Daniela Gentner & Cornelius Kibelka
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> Wikimedia Conference team
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2018
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> --
>> > > >>>>> Cornelius Kibelka
>> > > >>>>> Program and Engagement Coordinator (PEC)
>> > > >>>>> for the Wikimedia Conference
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963
>> Berlin
>> > > >>>>> Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
>> > > >>>>> http://wikimedia.de
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge
>> > > >> allen
>> > > >>>>> Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
>> > > >>>>> http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens
>> > e.
>> > > >> V.
>> > > >>>>> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
>> > > > Berlin-Charlottenburg
>> > > >>>> unter
>> > > >>>>> der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
>> Finanzamt
>> > > >> für
>> > > >>>>> Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________
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>> > > >>
>> > > >> --
>> > > >> Cornelius Kibelka
>> > > >> Program and Engagement Coordinator (PEC)
>> > > >> for the Wikimedia Conference
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
>> > > >> Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
>> > > >> http://wikimedia.de
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge
>> allen
>> > > >> Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
>> > > >> http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.
>> > V.
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>> > > > unter
>> > > >> der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt
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>> > --
>> > Seddon
>> >
>> > *Advancement Associate (Community Engagement)*
>> > *Wikimedia Foundation*
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>
> --
> Cornelius Kibelka
> Program and Engagement Coordinator (PEC)
> for the Wikimedia Conference
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
> http://wikimedia.de
>
> Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
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> http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
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