Yes, and then there's always the question. If he's getting paid, why aren't I? Why is he getting paid per word of article translated? Why am I not getting paid per spamvertisement deleted or vandal blocked? Why am I not getting paid for closing discussions that it takes hours of reading input and considering all sides and getting rocks thrown at me no matter what I do? Is that not valuable to the project as well?
If you want to pay anyone, you better start paying me. I'm okay with the idea of being a volunteer as long as everyone is a volunteer. But if you start paying some people and not me, we're going to have a problem. Todd On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 12:47 PM, Peter Southwood < peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > Those who pay get to select what is translated. > Cheers, > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of Jean-Philippe Béland > Sent: 24 February 2018 16:55 > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation > > I think the request for such projects should come from the concerned > language projects, same for the list of articles. If not, in my simple > opinion, it is a form of coloniasm again. > > Jean-Philippe Béland > Vice President, Wikimedia Canada > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 9:40 AM John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Should have added that the remaining points are somewhat less > > interesting in this context. Preloading a set of articles is a bad > > idea, the translators should be able to chose for themselves. Articles > > should also be pretty broad, not very narrow technical or medical, ie > > vertical articles, as the number of editors that can handle those will > be pretty small. > > > > In particular: Do not believe you can turn a teanslator into a new > editor! > > You can although turn an existing editor into a translator. > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 3:34 PM, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all articles > > > are > > >> extensively improved before being proposed for translation. > > > > > > > > > Note that to much pressure on "quality" can easily kill the project. > > > > > > 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF made efforts > > > more > > >> efficient than handing around word documents. Would love to see > > >> that > > tool > > >> improved further such as having it support specific lists of > > >> articles > > that > > >> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups. Would also love > > >> the tool to have tracking metrics for these types of projects. > > > > > > > > > Didn't mention ContentTranslation, but it should be pretty obvious. > > > > > > 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with our partner > > >> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that languages > > >> in which their are lots of translators such as French, Spanish, and > > >> Italian there is often already at least some content on many of the > > >> topics in question. > > The > > >> issue than becomes integration which needs an expert Wikipedia. And > > >> for languages in which we have little content there are often few > > >> avaliable volunteers. > > > > > > > > > I used projects below 65k articles as an example, as the chance of > > > competing articles are pretty low. > > > > > > 5) With respect to "paying per word" the problem is this would > > > require > > >> significant checks and balances to make sure people are taking the > > >> work seriously and not simple using Google translate for the 70 or > > >> so > > languages > > >> in which it claims to work. We often had translations undergo a > > >> second review and the volunteers at TWB have to pass certain tests > > >> to be accepted. > > > > > > > > > I'n my original email I wrote "verified good translators". It is as > > > simple as "Has the editor contributed other articles at the project?" > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 2:26 PM, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > >> We learned a few things during the medical translation project > > >> which started back in 2011: > > >> > > >> 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all articles > > >> are extensively improved before being proposed for translation. > > >> > > >> 2) A lot of languages want "less" content than is present on EN WP. > > >> Thus we moved to just improving and suggesting for translation the > > >> leads of the English articles. > > >> > > >> 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF made efforts > > >> more efficient than handing around word documents. Would love to > > >> see that > > tool > > >> improved further such as having it support specific lists of > > >> articles > > that > > >> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups. Would also love > > >> the tool to have tracking metrics for these types of projects. > > >> > > >> 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with our partner > > >> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that languages > > >> in which their are lots of translators such as French, Spanish, and > > >> Italian there is often already at least some content on many of the > > >> topics in question. > > The > > >> issue than becomes integration which needs an expert Wikipedia. And > > >> for languages in which we have little content there are often few > > >> avaliable volunteers. > > >> > > >> 5) With respect to "paying per word" the problem is this would > > >> require significant checks and balances to make sure people are > > >> taking the work seriously and not simple using Google translate for > > >> the 70 or so > > languages > > >> in which it claims to work. We often had translations undergo a > > >> second review and the volunteers at TWB have to pass certain tests > > >> to be accepted. > > >> > > >> 6) I hired a coordinator for the translation project for a couple > > >> of years. > > >> The translators at TWB did not want to become Wikipedians or learn > > >> how > > to > > >> use our systems. The coordinator created account like TransSW001 > > >> (one > > for > > >> each volunteer) and preloaded the article to be translated into > > >> Content Translation. They than gave the volunteer translator the > > >> user name and password to the account. > > >> > > >> 7) Were are we at now? There are currently just over 1,000 leads of > > >> articles that have been improved and are ready for translation. > > >> This includes articles on the 440 medications that are on the WHO > > >> Essential List. We have worked a bit in some 100 languages. The > > >> efforts have resulted in more than 5 million works translated and > > >> integrated into different Wikipedias. The coordinator has > > >> unfortunately moved on to his real job > > of > > >> teaching high school students. > > >> > > >> 8) The project continues but at a slower pace than before. The > > Wikipedian > > >> and retired orthopedic surgeon Subas Chandra Rout has basically > > >> single handedly translated nearly all 1,000 leads into Odia a > > >> language spoken > > by > > >> 40 million people in Eastern India. The amazing thing is that for > > >> many > > of > > >> these topics this is the first and only information online about it. > > >> Google > > >> translate does not even claim to work in this language. Our > > >> partnerships with WMTW and medical school in Taipai continue to > > >> translate into > > Chinese. > > >> There the students translate and than their translations are > > >> reviewed by their profs before being posted. They translate in > > >> groups using hackpad > > to > > >> make it more social. > > >> > > >> I am currently working to re invigorate the project :-) James > > >> > > >> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 5:51 AM, John Erling Blad > > >> <jeb...@gmail.com> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > This discussion is going to be fun! =D > > >> > > > >> > A little more than seventy Wikipedia-projects has more than 65k > > >> articles, > > >> > the remaining two hundred or so are pretty small. > > >> > > > >> > What if a base set of articles were opened for paid translators? > > >> > There > > >> are > > >> > several lists of such base sets. We have both the thousand > > >> > articles > > from > > >> > "List of articles every Wikipedia should have"[1] and and the ten > > >> thousand > > >> > articles from the expanded list[2]. > > >> > > > >> > Lets say verified good translators was paid about $0.01 per word > > (about > > >> $1 > > >> > for a 1k-article) for translating one of those articles into > > >> > another language, with perhaps a higher pay for contributors in > > >> > high-cost countries. The pay would also have to be higher for > > >> > languages that > > lacks > > >> > good translation tools. > > >> > > > >> > I believe this would be an _enabling_ activity for the > > >> > communities, as without a base set of articles it won't be > > >> > possible to build a > > >> community at > > >> > all. By not paying for new articles, and only translating > > >> well-referenced > > >> > articles, some of the disputes in the communities could be avoided. > > >> Perhaps > > >> > we should also identify good source articles, that would be a help. > > >> > Translated articles should be above some minimum size, but they > > >> > does > > not > > >> > have to be full translations of the source article. > > >> > > > >> > A real problem is that our existing lists of good articles other > > >> projects > > >> > should have is pretty much biased towards Western World, so they > > >> > need > > a > > >> lot > > >> > of adjustments. Perhaps such a project would identify our inherit > > bias? > > >> > > > >> > [1] > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_articles_every_ > > >> > Wikipedia_should_have > > >> > [2] > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_articles_every_ > > >> > Wikipedia_should_have/Expanded > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: > > >> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >> > Unsubscribe: > > >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > , > > >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscri > > >> > be> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> James Heilman > > >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik i/Wikimedia-l New messages to: > > >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >> Unsubscribe: > > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > http://www.avg.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
