It is a long time since everyone on these projects were solely volunteers. :)
On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 9:40 PM, Todd Allen <toddmal...@gmail.com> wrote: > Yes, and then there's always the question. If he's getting paid, why aren't > I? Why is he getting paid per word of article translated? Why am I not > getting paid per spamvertisement deleted or vandal blocked? Why am I not > getting paid for closing discussions that it takes hours of reading input > and considering all sides and getting rocks thrown at me no matter what I > do? Is that not valuable to the project as well? > > If you want to pay anyone, you better start paying me. I'm okay with the > idea of being a volunteer as long as everyone is a volunteer. But if you > start paying some people and not me, we're going to have a problem. > > Todd > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 12:47 PM, Peter Southwood < > peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > > > Those who pay get to select what is translated. > > Cheers, > > Peter > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > > Behalf Of Jean-Philippe Béland > > Sent: 24 February 2018 16:55 > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation > > > > I think the request for such projects should come from the concerned > > language projects, same for the list of articles. If not, in my simple > > opinion, it is a form of coloniasm again. > > > > Jean-Philippe Béland > > Vice President, Wikimedia Canada > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 9:40 AM John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > Should have added that the remaining points are somewhat less > > > interesting in this context. Preloading a set of articles is a bad > > > idea, the translators should be able to chose for themselves. Articles > > > should also be pretty broad, not very narrow technical or medical, ie > > > vertical articles, as the number of editors that can handle those will > > be pretty small. > > > > > > In particular: Do not believe you can turn a teanslator into a new > > editor! > > > You can although turn an existing editor into a translator. > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 3:34 PM, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all articles > > > > are > > > >> extensively improved before being proposed for translation. > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that to much pressure on "quality" can easily kill the project. > > > > > > > > 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF made efforts > > > > more > > > >> efficient than handing around word documents. Would love to see > > > >> that > > > tool > > > >> improved further such as having it support specific lists of > > > >> articles > > > that > > > >> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups. Would also love > > > >> the tool to have tracking metrics for these types of projects. > > > > > > > > > > > > Didn't mention ContentTranslation, but it should be pretty obvious. > > > > > > > > 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with our partner > > > >> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that languages > > > >> in which their are lots of translators such as French, Spanish, and > > > >> Italian there is often already at least some content on many of the > > > >> topics in question. > > > The > > > >> issue than becomes integration which needs an expert Wikipedia. And > > > >> for languages in which we have little content there are often few > > > >> avaliable volunteers. > > > > > > > > > > > > I used projects below 65k articles as an example, as the chance of > > > > competing articles are pretty low. > > > > > > > > 5) With respect to "paying per word" the problem is this would > > > > require > > > >> significant checks and balances to make sure people are taking the > > > >> work seriously and not simple using Google translate for the 70 or > > > >> so > > > languages > > > >> in which it claims to work. We often had translations undergo a > > > >> second review and the volunteers at TWB have to pass certain tests > > > >> to be accepted. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'n my original email I wrote "verified good translators". It is as > > > > simple as "Has the editor contributed other articles at the project?" > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 2:26 PM, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> We learned a few things during the medical translation project > > > >> which started back in 2011: > > > >> > > > >> 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all articles > > > >> are extensively improved before being proposed for translation. > > > >> > > > >> 2) A lot of languages want "less" content than is present on EN WP. > > > >> Thus we moved to just improving and suggesting for translation the > > > >> leads of the English articles. > > > >> > > > >> 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF made efforts > > > >> more efficient than handing around word documents. Would love to > > > >> see that > > > tool > > > >> improved further such as having it support specific lists of > > > >> articles > > > that > > > >> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups. Would also love > > > >> the tool to have tracking metrics for these types of projects. > > > >> > > > >> 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with our partner > > > >> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that languages > > > >> in which their are lots of translators such as French, Spanish, and > > > >> Italian there is often already at least some content on many of the > > > >> topics in question. > > > The > > > >> issue than becomes integration which needs an expert Wikipedia. And > > > >> for languages in which we have little content there are often few > > > >> avaliable volunteers. > > > >> > > > >> 5) With respect to "paying per word" the problem is this would > > > >> require significant checks and balances to make sure people are > > > >> taking the work seriously and not simple using Google translate for > > > >> the 70 or so > > > languages > > > >> in which it claims to work. We often had translations undergo a > > > >> second review and the volunteers at TWB have to pass certain tests > > > >> to be accepted. > > > >> > > > >> 6) I hired a coordinator for the translation project for a couple > > > >> of years. > > > >> The translators at TWB did not want to become Wikipedians or learn > > > >> how > > > to > > > >> use our systems. The coordinator created account like TransSW001 > > > >> (one > > > for > > > >> each volunteer) and preloaded the article to be translated into > > > >> Content Translation. They than gave the volunteer translator the > > > >> user name and password to the account. > > > >> > > > >> 7) Were are we at now? There are currently just over 1,000 leads of > > > >> articles that have been improved and are ready for translation. > > > >> This includes articles on the 440 medications that are on the WHO > > > >> Essential List. We have worked a bit in some 100 languages. The > > > >> efforts have resulted in more than 5 million works translated and > > > >> integrated into different Wikipedias. The coordinator has > > > >> unfortunately moved on to his real job > > > of > > > >> teaching high school students. > > > >> > > > >> 8) The project continues but at a slower pace than before. The > > > Wikipedian > > > >> and retired orthopedic surgeon Subas Chandra Rout has basically > > > >> single handedly translated nearly all 1,000 leads into Odia a > > > >> language spoken > > > by > > > >> 40 million people in Eastern India. The amazing thing is that for > > > >> many > > > of > > > >> these topics this is the first and only information online about it. > > > >> Google > > > >> translate does not even claim to work in this language. Our > > > >> partnerships with WMTW and medical school in Taipai continue to > > > >> translate into > > > Chinese. > > > >> There the students translate and than their translations are > > > >> reviewed by their profs before being posted. They translate in > > > >> groups using hackpad > > > to > > > >> make it more social. > > > >> > > > >> I am currently working to re invigorate the project :-) James > > > >> > > > >> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 5:51 AM, John Erling Blad > > > >> <jeb...@gmail.com> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > This discussion is going to be fun! =D > > > >> > > > > >> > A little more than seventy Wikipedia-projects has more than 65k > > > >> articles, > > > >> > the remaining two hundred or so are pretty small. > > > >> > > > > >> > What if a base set of articles were opened for paid translators? > > > >> > There > > > >> are > > > >> > several lists of such base sets. We have both the thousand > > > >> > articles > > > from > > > >> > "List of articles every Wikipedia should have"[1] and and the ten > > > >> thousand > > > >> > articles from the expanded list[2]. > > > >> > > > > >> > Lets say verified good translators was paid about $0.01 per word > > > (about > > > >> $1 > > > >> > for a 1k-article) for translating one of those articles into > > > >> > another language, with perhaps a higher pay for contributors in > > > >> > high-cost countries. The pay would also have to be higher for > > > >> > languages that > > > lacks > > > >> > good translation tools. > > > >> > > > > >> > I believe this would be an _enabling_ activity for the > > > >> > communities, as without a base set of articles it won't be > > > >> > possible to build a > > > >> community at > > > >> > all. By not paying for new articles, and only translating > > > >> well-referenced > > > >> > articles, some of the disputes in the communities could be > avoided. > > > >> Perhaps > > > >> > we should also identify good source articles, that would be a > help. > > > >> > Translated articles should be above some minimum size, but they > > > >> > does > > > not > > > >> > have to be full translations of the source article. > > > >> > > > > >> > A real problem is that our existing lists of good articles other > > > >> projects > > > >> > should have is pretty much biased towards Western World, so they > > > >> > need > > > a > > > >> lot > > > >> > of adjustments. Perhaps such a project would identify our inherit > > > bias? > > > >> > > > > >> > [1] > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_articles_every_ > > > >> > Wikipedia_should_have > > > >> > [2] > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_articles_every_ > > > >> > Wikipedia_should_have/Expanded > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: > > > >> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > >> > Unsubscribe: > > > >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > , > > > >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscri > > > >> > be> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> James Heilman > > > >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik i/Wikimedia-l New messages to: > > > >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > >> Unsubscribe: > > > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > --- > > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > > http://www.avg.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
