The source article should meet certain standards, but do not fall in the trap where the translated articles must themselves be better than some imagined standard. That would lead to a defunc process.
On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 8:41 PM, Michael Snow <wikipe...@frontier.com> wrote: > I think the experience I've had with translating matches up well with the > conclusions James has outlined. Even though I'm more likely to translate > content into English rather than out of English, the principles still hold. > > Trying to produce a translation without quality content in the original > article is a frustrating and pointless exercise for the translator. Unless > the original meets certain standards, it would be better and easier to > write the article from scratch in the "destination" language and translate > it back to the "source" language. > > Assuming we have a good article in the original language, I definitely > encourage translators to use editorial judgment in what they carry over. > Focusing on the lead section is one possible approach. In general, because > we are trying to translate information and not literature, we should have > different priorities. It is more important that the translation maintain > fidelity to the facts than to the language and structure of the article. > Sometimes it makes sense to pass over certain details, even a > beginning-to-end translation might come out a bit condensed. As one reason > for this, making some details accessible to the cultural audience in the > new language can at times require a fair amount of elaboration, more than > may be ideal for the context under discussion. The best approach to use is > one of adaptation as much as translation. > > I don't have strong feelings about whether a paid model will work, or work > better than purely volunteer activity, but I would be open to seeing a > trial. The essential thing is that we find translators who can understand > and apply standards of quality in their work, much like we would expect if > they were editors writing entirely new articles. > > --Michael Snow > > > On 2/24/2018 5:26 AM, James Heilman wrote: > >> We learned a few things during the medical translation project which >> started back in 2011: >> >> 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all articles are >> extensively improved before being proposed for translation. >> >> 2) A lot of languages want "less" content than is present on EN WP. Thus >> we >> moved to just improving and suggesting for translation the leads of the >> English articles. >> >> 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF made efforts more >> efficient than handing around word documents. Would love to see that tool >> improved further such as having it support specific lists of articles that >> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups. Would also love the >> tool to have tracking metrics for these types of projects. >> >> 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with our partner >> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that languages in >> which >> their are lots of translators such as French, Spanish, and Italian there >> is >> often already at least some content on many of the topics in question. The >> issue than becomes integration which needs an expert Wikipedia. And for >> languages in which we have little content there are often few avaliable >> volunteers. >> >> 5) With respect to "paying per word" the problem is this would require >> significant checks and balances to make sure people are taking the work >> seriously and not simple using Google translate for the 70 or so languages >> in which it claims to work. We often had translations undergo a second >> review and the volunteers at TWB have to pass certain tests to be >> accepted. >> >> 6) I hired a coordinator for the translation project for a couple of >> years. >> The translators at TWB did not want to become Wikipedians or learn how to >> use our systems. The coordinator created account like TransSW001 (one for >> each volunteer) and preloaded the article to be translated into Content >> Translation. They than gave the volunteer translator the user name and >> password to the account. >> >> 7) Were are we at now? There are currently just over 1,000 leads of >> articles that have been improved and are ready for translation. This >> includes articles on the 440 medications that are on the WHO Essential >> List. We have worked a bit in some 100 languages. The efforts have >> resulted >> in more than 5 million works translated and integrated into different >> Wikipedias. The coordinator has unfortunately moved on to his real job of >> teaching high school students. >> >> 8) The project continues but at a slower pace than before. The Wikipedian >> and retired orthopedic surgeon Subas Chandra Rout has basically single >> handedly translated nearly all 1,000 leads into Odia a language spoken by >> 40 million people in Eastern India. The amazing thing is that for many of >> these topics this is the first and only information online about it. >> Google >> translate does not even claim to work in this language. Our partnerships >> with WMTW and medical school in Taipai continue to translate into Chinese. >> There the students translate and than their translations are reviewed by >> their profs before being posted. They translate in groups using hackpad to >> make it more social. >> >> I am currently working to re invigorate the project :-) >> James >> >> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 5:51 AM, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> This discussion is going to be fun! =D >>> >>> A little more than seventy Wikipedia-projects has more than 65k articles, >>> the remaining two hundred or so are pretty small. >>> >>> What if a base set of articles were opened for paid translators? There >>> are >>> several lists of such base sets. We have both the thousand articles from >>> "List of articles every Wikipedia should have" and and the ten >>> thousand >>> articles from the expanded list. >>> >>> Lets say verified good translators was paid about $0.01 per word (about >>> $1 >>> for a 1k-article) for translating one of those articles into another >>> language, with perhaps a higher pay for contributors in high-cost >>> countries. The pay would also have to be higher for languages that lacks >>> good translation tools. >>> >>> I believe this would be an _enabling_ activity for the communities, as >>> without a base set of articles it won't be possible to build a community >>> at >>> all. By not paying for new articles, and only translating well-referenced >>> articles, some of the disputes in the communities could be avoided. >>> Perhaps >>> we should also identify good source articles, that would be a help. >>> Translated articles should be above some minimum size, but they does not >>> have to be full translations of the source article. >>> >>> A real problem is that our existing lists of good articles other projects >>> should have is pretty much biased towards Western World, so they need a >>> lot >>> of adjustments. Perhaps such a project would identify our inherit bias? >>> >>>  >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_articles_every_ >>> Wikipedia_should_have >>>  >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_articles_every_ >>> Wikipedia_should_have/Expanded >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >>> wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> New messages to: Wikimediafirstname.lastname@example.org >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>> >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik > i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimediaemail@example.com > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimediafirstname.lastname@example.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>