John and All,

As a possible complement to this discussion, CC-4 MIT
OpenCourseWare-centric World University and School seeks to matriculate
students in all ~200 countries' official/main languages (
https://wiki.worlduniversityandschool.org/wiki/Languages), and may
compensate them for work in a number of ways, including translation and
developing machine translation (and in all 7,099 living languages
eventually).

World Univ. and Sch. donated ourselves to Wikidata in 2015 for
co-development, and got a new WUaS Miraheze Mediawiki last year in these
regards too.

Cheers, Scott
- https://wiki.worlduniversityandschool.org/wiki/Nation_States
(each to become a major online University for free CC-4 OCW degrees)



On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 1:49 PM, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It is a long time since everyone on these projects were solely volunteers.
> :)
>
> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 9:40 PM, Todd Allen <toddmal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes, and then there's always the question. If he's getting paid, why
> aren't
> > I? Why is he getting paid per word of article translated? Why am I not
> > getting paid per spamvertisement deleted or vandal blocked? Why am I not
> > getting paid for closing discussions that it takes hours of reading input
> > and considering all sides and getting rocks thrown at me no matter what I
> > do? Is that not valuable to the project as well?
> >
> > If you want to pay anyone, you better start paying me. I'm okay with the
> > idea of being a volunteer as long as everyone is a volunteer. But if you
> > start paying some people and not me, we're going to have a problem.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 12:47 PM, Peter Southwood <
> > peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Those who pay get to select what is translated.
> > > Cheers,
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Jean-Philippe Béland
> > > Sent: 24 February 2018 16:55
> > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation
> > >
> > > I think the request for such projects should come from the concerned
> > > language projects, same for the list of articles. If not, in my simple
> > > opinion, it is a form of coloniasm again.
> > >
> > > Jean-Philippe Béland
> > > Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 9:40 AM John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Should have added that the remaining points are somewhat less
> > > > interesting in this context. Preloading a set of articles is a bad
> > > > idea, the translators should be able to chose for themselves.
> Articles
> > > > should also be pretty broad, not very narrow technical or medical, ie
> > > > vertical articles, as the number of editors that can handle those
> will
> > > be pretty small.
> > > >
> > > > In particular: Do not believe you can turn a teanslator into a new
> > > editor!
> > > > You can although turn an existing editor into a translator.
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 3:34 PM, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all articles
> > > > > are
> > > > >> extensively improved before being proposed for translation.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Note that to much pressure on "quality" can easily kill the
> project.
> > > > >
> > > > > 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF made efforts
> > > > > more
> > > > >> efficient than handing around word documents. Would love to see
> > > > >> that
> > > > tool
> > > > >> improved further such as having it support specific lists of
> > > > >> articles
> > > > that
> > > > >> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups. Would also
> love
> > > > >> the tool to have tracking metrics for these types of projects.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Didn't mention ContentTranslation, but it should be pretty obvious.
> > > > >
> > > > > 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with our partner
> > > > >> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that languages
> > > > >> in which their are lots of translators such as French, Spanish,
> and
> > > > >> Italian there is often already at least some content on many of
> the
> > > > >> topics in question.
> > > > The
> > > > >> issue than becomes integration which needs an expert Wikipedia.
> And
> > > > >> for languages in which we have little content there are often few
> > > > >> avaliable volunteers.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I used projects below 65k articles as an example, as the chance of
> > > > > competing articles are pretty low.
> > > > >
> > > > > 5) With respect to "paying per word" the problem is this would
> > > > > require
> > > > >> significant checks and balances to make sure people are taking the
> > > > >> work seriously and not simple using Google translate for the 70 or
> > > > >> so
> > > > languages
> > > > >> in which it claims to work. We often had translations undergo a
> > > > >> second review and the volunteers at TWB have to pass certain tests
> > > > >> to be accepted.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'n my original email I wrote "verified good translators". It is as
> > > > > simple as "Has the editor contributed other articles at the
> project?"
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 2:26 PM, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> We learned a few things during the medical translation project
> > > > >> which started back in 2011:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all articles
> > > > >> are extensively improved before being proposed for translation.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 2) A lot of languages want "less" content than is present on EN
> WP.
> > > > >> Thus we moved to just improving and suggesting for translation the
> > > > >> leads of the English articles.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF made
> efforts
> > > > >> more efficient than handing around word documents. Would love to
> > > > >> see that
> > > > tool
> > > > >> improved further such as having it support specific lists of
> > > > >> articles
> > > > that
> > > > >> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups. Would also
> love
> > > > >> the tool to have tracking metrics for these types of projects.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with our
> partner
> > > > >> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that languages
> > > > >> in which their are lots of translators such as French, Spanish,
> and
> > > > >> Italian there is often already at least some content on many of
> the
> > > > >> topics in question.
> > > > The
> > > > >> issue than becomes integration which needs an expert Wikipedia.
> And
> > > > >> for languages in which we have little content there are often few
> > > > >> avaliable volunteers.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 5) With respect to "paying per word" the problem is this would
> > > > >> require significant checks and balances to make sure people are
> > > > >> taking the work seriously and not simple using Google translate
> for
> > > > >> the 70 or so
> > > > languages
> > > > >> in which it claims to work. We often had translations undergo a
> > > > >> second review and the volunteers at TWB have to pass certain tests
> > > > >> to be accepted.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 6) I hired a coordinator for the translation project for a couple
> > > > >> of years.
> > > > >> The translators at TWB did not want to become Wikipedians or learn
> > > > >> how
> > > > to
> > > > >> use our systems. The coordinator created account like TransSW001
> > > > >> (one
> > > > for
> > > > >> each volunteer) and preloaded the article to be translated into
> > > > >> Content Translation. They than gave the volunteer translator the
> > > > >> user name and password to the account.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 7) Were are we at now? There are currently just over 1,000 leads
> of
> > > > >> articles that have been improved and are ready for translation.
> > > > >> This includes articles on the 440 medications that are on the WHO
> > > > >> Essential List. We have worked a bit in some 100 languages. The
> > > > >> efforts have resulted in more than 5 million works translated and
> > > > >> integrated into different Wikipedias. The coordinator has
> > > > >> unfortunately moved on to his real job
> > > > of
> > > > >> teaching high school students.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 8) The project continues but at a slower pace than before. The
> > > > Wikipedian
> > > > >> and retired orthopedic surgeon Subas Chandra Rout has basically
> > > > >> single handedly translated nearly all 1,000 leads into Odia a
> > > > >> language spoken
> > > > by
> > > > >> 40 million people in Eastern India. The amazing thing is that for
> > > > >> many
> > > > of
> > > > >> these topics this is the first and only information online about
> it.
> > > > >> Google
> > > > >> translate does not even claim to work in this language. Our
> > > > >> partnerships with WMTW and medical school in Taipai continue to
> > > > >> translate into
> > > > Chinese.
> > > > >> There the students translate and than their translations are
> > > > >> reviewed by their profs before being posted. They translate in
> > > > >> groups using hackpad
> > > > to
> > > > >> make it more social.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I am currently working to re invigorate the project :-) James
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 5:51 AM, John Erling Blad
> > > > >> <jeb...@gmail.com>
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > This discussion is going to be fun! =D
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > A little more than seventy Wikipedia-projects has more than 65k
> > > > >> articles,
> > > > >> > the remaining two hundred or so are pretty small.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > What if a base set of articles were opened for paid translators?
> > > > >> > There
> > > > >> are
> > > > >> > several lists of such base sets. We have both the thousand
> > > > >> > articles
> > > > from
> > > > >> > "List of articles every Wikipedia should have"[1] and and the
> ten
> > > > >> thousand
> > > > >> > articles from the expanded list[2].
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Lets say verified good translators was paid about $0.01 per word
> > > > (about
> > > > >> $1
> > > > >> > for a 1k-article) for translating one of those articles into
> > > > >> > another language, with perhaps a higher pay for contributors in
> > > > >> > high-cost countries. The pay would also have to be higher for
> > > > >> > languages that
> > > > lacks
> > > > >> > good translation tools.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I believe this would be an _enabling_ activity for the
> > > > >> > communities, as without a base set of articles it won't be
> > > > >> > possible to build a
> > > > >> community at
> > > > >> > all. By not paying for new articles, and only translating
> > > > >> well-referenced
> > > > >> > articles, some of the disputes in the communities could be
> > avoided.
> > > > >> Perhaps
> > > > >> > we should also identify good source articles, that would be a
> > help.
> > > > >> > Translated articles should be above some minimum size, but they
> > > > >> > does
> > > > not
> > > > >> > have to be full translations of the source article.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > A real problem is that our existing lists of good articles other
> > > > >> projects
> > > > >> > should have is pretty much biased towards Western World, so they
> > > > >> > need
> > > > a
> > > > >> lot
> > > > >> > of adjustments. Perhaps such a project would identify our
> inherit
> > > > bias?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > [1]
> > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_articles_every_
> > > > >> > Wikipedia_should_have
> > > > >> > [2]
> > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_articles_every_
> > > > >> > Wikipedia_should_have/Expanded
> > > > >> > _______________________________________________
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> > > > >> > be>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> James Heilman
> > > > >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
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-- 
- Scott MacLeod - Founder & President
- https://twitter.com/WorldUnivAndSch
- World University and School
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- http://scottmacleod.com

- CC World University and School - like CC Wikipedia with best STEM-centric
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