I like the idea, but have no clue as to how practicable it would be. Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of John Erling Blad Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 12:36 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation We do need better tools to curate the existing articles, but that is not a blocker for new ways to create and edit articles. For example, what if we could simply select a sentence, create a query on some search engine, and then have an ai-bot crawl the result to see if one of the hits can be used as a source? Turned around, the ai-bot could check the sentences in an article and flag those it can't verify, thus guiding the editor to back those sentences with references. That would off-load the bulk of the work on sourcing articles. Just an idea. On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 6:49 PM, Renée Bagslint <reneebagsl...@gmail.com> wrote: > Does it make sense to have more articles in a language than can be > curated by the volunteers who speak that language? This has already > happened on the Englisg-language Wikipedia where the five million > articles have simply overwhelmed the capability of the few thousand > active contributors to self-organise and curate -- for example, there > are about one million articles without adequate sources, and thousands > of unsourced BLP; there are copyvio cleanups that will not complete, > if ever, before 2030. An army of hand-coded bots is just about > keeping on top of vandalism. How does that scale to projects where > the number of native speaker contributors is in the dozens rather than the > thousands? > > On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 4:17 PM, Vi to <vituzzu.w...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > (This thread is getting terribly interesting) > > > > I generally think Wikipedia should be a strictly non interfering > > observer for various aspects, language included. I fear if a wiki > > tries to set a model for a language it may be a model which doesn't > > represent the > reality > > of that language: small wikis are often monopolized by a few users. > That's > > not a fault per se but it may introduce a significant bias in > > linguistic models used. > > > > About one of Amir's emails I think a "small" Wikipedia edition is > > sign > of a > > series of situations, one of the most common of is an endangered > language. > > While planning should differentiate between endangered and non > > endangered language I think most of problems we have to face are > > related to > languages > > endangered at various levels. > > > > On a more practical and less ideological note, I should note that > > even though I didn't run the numbers, I strongly suspect that > > translating > 10,000 > > articles to 100 languages is considerably cheaper than teaching 7 > > billion people English. > > > > I don't why but I tend to second your suspects :p > > > > > > Vito > > > > 2018-02-27 16:53 GMT+01:00 Peter Southwood > ><peter.southw...@telkomsa.net > >: > > > > > If the people creating the basic encyclopaedic terminology and > > > style in the language are native speakers, then it would not be a > > > thing imposed > > from > > > outside. It would be a development within the language, just like > > > it > was > > > with the languages that already have encyclopaedias. The basic > > > encyclopaedic terminology and style in languages that have then > > > also > had > > to > > > be created before it existed, it just happened earlier. Living > languages > > > evolve to deal with the realities of the present. Those which > > > don’t, > tend > > > to die out as they become less useful. Cheers, Peter > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] > > > On Behalf Of Vi to > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:43 PM > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation > > > > > > I see Amir's points, which are pretty reasonable, but I fear this > > > would suit languages with a significant presence on the web. > > > > > > Among them I agree with points 1, 3 and 4 while I'm not sure about > > > #2 "creating basic encyclopedic terminology and style in that > > > language", > if > > we > > > want to preserve a language we shouldn't create a thing. > > > > > > By the way I was wondering my concerns about cultural colonization > > > may > be > > > addressed -for wikis which has some contents (let's say at least > > > 1000 > > > articles)- by starting expanding existing articles instead of > translating > > > new ones. This would solve the problem of choosing what to > > > translate > > though > > > would leave problems about the perspective contents are created. > > > > > > Vito > > > > > > 2018-02-27 12:31 GMT+01:00 Amir E. Aharoni < > amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il > > >: > > > > > > > 2018-02-27 13:00 GMT+02:00 mathieu stumpf guntz < > > > > psychosl...@culture-libre.org>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Le 24/02/2018 à 18:08, Vi to a écrit : > > > > > > > > > >> *finally I think paid translators would hardly turn into > > > > >> stable Wikipedians. > > > > >> > > > > >> I think this misses an important point that is, we don't need > > > > >> the > > > > initial > > > > > translator to turn into a sustaining editor, we need the > > > > > article to > > > > evolve > > > > > with call to action incentives. And articles which don't exist > > > > > at all – even as a stub – or don't meet an audience of > > > > > potential contributors will never catch such an evolving cycle. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is one of the issues with what I alluded to in my earlier > > > > email in this thread: the privilege that the "big" languages > > > > have. It's the privilege of already having other encyclopedias, > > > > textbooks, public education, etc., in this language. A lot of > > > > languages don't have > these > > > > things. When you speak a language that has had these things > > > > before Wikipedia came along, it's hard to perceive the world > > > > like a person who speaks a language that doesn't perceives it. > > > > > > > > If you define the purpose of paying somebody to translate as > > > > "turning the paid translator" into a sustaining editor, then > > > > this is indeed likely to fail. > > > > > > > > But if you define the purpose differently, it may succeed. For > > > > example, you may define the purpose as one or more of the following: > > > > * Demonstrating that it's possible to write an encyclopedia in > > > > that language > > > > * Creating basic encyclopedic terminology and style in that > > > > language > > > > * Creating a bunch of basic articles that would appear in > > > > interlanguage links in Wikipedias from bigger languages > > > > (English, French, etc.) > > > > * Creating a bunch of basic articles that would appear in search > > > > results from internet search engines > > > > > > > > The existence of these things may bring in people who will > > > > become volunteer sustaining editors. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי > > > > http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to > live > > > > in peace.” – T. 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