Hi Andra,

I agree this is misconception that a copyright license make any direct change to data reliability. But attribution requirement does somewhat indirectly have an impact on it, as it legally enforce traceability. That is I strongly disagree with the following assertion: "a license that requires BY sucks so hard for data [because] attribution requirements grow very quickly". To my mind it is equivalent to say that we will throw away traceability because it is subjectively judged too large a burden, without providing any start of evidence that it indeed can't be managed, at least with Wikimedia current ressources.

Now, I don't say traceability is the sole factor one should take into account in data reliability, but certainly it is one of them. Maybe we should first come with clear criteria to put in a equation that enable to calculate reliability of information. Since it's in the core goals of the Wikimedia strategy, it would certainly worth the effort to establish clear metrics about reliability of information the movement is spreading.


Le 04/07/2018 à 13:00, Andra Waagmeester a écrit :
I agree with Maarten and to add to that. It is a huge misconception that CC0  makes data unreliable. It is only a legal statement about copyright, nothing more, nothing less. Statements without proper references and qualifiers make data unreliable, but Wikidata has a decent mechanism to capture that needed provenance.

On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 12:50 PM, Maarten Dammers <maar...@mdammers.nl <mailto:maar...@mdammers.nl>> wrote:

    Hi Mathieu,

    On 04-07-18 11:07, mathieu stumpf guntz wrote:


        Le 19/05/2018 à 03:35, Denny Vrandečić a écrit :

            Regarding attribution, commonly it is assumed that you
            have to respect it transitively. That is one of the
            reasons a license that requires BY sucks so hard for data:
            unlike with text, the attribution requirements grow very
            quickly. It is the same as with modified images and
            collages: it is not sufficient to attribute the last
            author, but all contributors have to be attributed.

        If we want our data to be trustable, then we need
        traceability. That is reporting this chain of sources as
        extensively as possible, whatever the license require or not
        as attribution. CC-0 allow to break this traceability, which
        make an aweful license to whoever is concerned with obtaining
        reliable data.

    A license is not the way to achieve this. We have references for that.

            This is why I think that whoever wants to be part of a
            large federation of data on the web, should publish under CC0.

        As long as one aim at making a federation of untrustable data
        banks, that's perfect. ;)

    So I see you started forum shopping (trying to get the Wikimedia-l
    people in) and making contentious trying to be funny remarks.
    That's usually a good indication a thread is going nowhere.

    No, Wikidata is not going to change the CC0. You seem to be the
    only person wanting that and trying to discredit Wikidata will not
    help you in your crusade. I suggest the people who are still
    interested in this to go to
    <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728> and make useful
    comments over there.


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