I did one pass over the emails in the past two months and I don't see
excessive (the way I understand the word) reminders and announcements
except perhaps for Research Showcase. ;) If that is the only event
that is triggering this conversation, the solution is easy: You can
just tell me your feedback and I'll take it back to the team and we
can most probably update the workflow on our end. (I have a sense that
one email about that event to wikimedia-l is enough and reminders are
not needed.)

If the conversation is about more than one event, yeah, perhaps we
should discuss more. I like the idea of a separate announcement list
but I'm also concerned about making ourselves too thin across many
channels. Maybe we can have a norm that every announcement to
wikimedia-l should have an [announcement] tag in the subject for
people to easily filter out. I personally don't mind the intensity of
announcements as the Mute button in my email client works effectively
(as long as, as Lodewijk said, people don't start new threads.:)

And while we're on the subject of emails: As a member of this list,
what concerns me is the lack of diversity of voices in many instances
and conversations. I would love to learn how we can change this and if
one or more of you are up for helping prepare a survey to run on the
list to learn more, please let me know. (This will be with my
volunteer hat on. and I want to clarify that this needs to be
coordinated with the list moderators.)

Best,
Leila

--
Leila Zia
Senior Research Scientist, Lead
Wikimedia Foundation

On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 4:30 AM Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 22 Oct 2018 at 00:34, effe iets anders <effeietsand...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Pine,
> >
> > I would also suggest not to get overly bureaucratic with this :) If the
> > public meeting you refer to requires a large attendance, the 14 days makes
> > sense for example - but I cannot recall many meetings of that style.
> > Rather, most meetings are either scheduled taking the availability of
> > participants in mind, or it is to get input (where it is more important to
> > have a bunch of people show up, than to have everyone participate).
> >
> > Whether more than one reminder is excessive, is imho quite subjective. I
> > appreciate most reminders, especially if they stick to the same thread.
> >
> > On a side note: are there any weekly meetings being announced on this list?
> > Again, it highly depends on the topic, and whether the reminder may also
> > contain more information.
> >
> > My point? Don't worry about it so much :) Be flexible with this, and go
> > with the flow. People can figure this out quite well if they use their
> > common sense without added bureaucracy.
> >
> > Lodewijk
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 1:50 PM Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Wikimedia-l and Wikitech-l,
> > >
> > > Keeping in mind the large numbers of subscribers on some Wikimedia email
> > > lists, the endless valuable uses for the time of knowledgeable volunteer
> > > Wikimedians, the significant financial costs for the time of many of the
> > > staff and contractors on these mailing lists, and how packed calendars can
> > > be, I propose that we implement a few social norms/guidelines for
> > > Wikimedia-l and Wikitech-l in particular.
> > >
> > > 1. When planning to have a one-time public meeting, announce it at least 
> > > 14
> > > days in advance to give everyone who might like to participate that much
> > > lead time to clear space on their calendars. Rarely is a one-time public
> > > meeting so urgent that it cannot wait 14 days from the day that it is
> > > announced.
> > >
> > > 2. Send a maximum of one reminder email regarding a one-time public
> > > meeting, and also send a maximum of one reminder email regarding events
> > > with deadlines such as Wikimania scholarship submissions or conference
> > > presentation proposals. More than one reminder about a meeting or deadline
> > > is excessive.
> > >
> > > 3. If extending a deadline, send only an announcement of the extension 
> > > with
> > > no additional reminder.
> > >
> > > 4. Send only one email to announce a recurring weekly meeting, with no
> > > additional reminders. Meetings which recur less often, such as biweekly or
> > > monthly, may continue to be announced with one additional reminder.
> > >
> > > At this time these are proposals only. Comments are welcome. If the
> > > comments become extensive then I may request that we move the conversation
> > > to Meta.
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > > Pine
> > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> Completely agree that this is a real problem, and that solving it is a
> positive change rather than a "bureaucratic" one.
>
> As a reminder for everyone who reads this list, it is defined as:[1]
> Wikimedia Mailing List
> Discussion list for the Wikimedia community and the larger network of
> organizations (Wikimedia Foundation, chapter organizations,
> affiliates, partners) supporting its work.
>
> Let's agree to draw the common-sense distinction between having a
> *discussion* and one-way *broadcasting* announcements, PR statements
> and thankspam. This list is not intended for any of the latter, and
> filling subscriber's inboxes with announcements rather than
> interesting contemporary discussion is damaging this list and reduces
> its subscriber base. This is probably a significant part of why
> subscription and community engagement has been seriously dropping off
> over the last few years.
>
> I propose that we create a movement wide announcements list
> (wikimedia-announcements) that is intended for broadcasting, rather
> than discussion, and this list can be kept for discussion. If people
> feel they need to send three announcements/reminders/changes for the
> same meeting, then that can be okay on the announcements list, and
> should be called out as misuse, or even hijacking, for this discussion
> list. A simple change, and for those that wish to follow
> announcements, makes it easy for them to be automatically filtered.
>
> Links
> 1. https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
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