A quick comment: there are some sympthoms the process is totally broken
there. Reasoning about sources works fine when the process works, it's
completely useless otherwise.

See Dalibor Bosits@hrwiki
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Steward_requests/Permissions#Dalibor_Bosits@hrwiki>
for example.

Vito

Il giorno mer 28 nov 2018 alle ore 13:09 Dennis During <dcdur...@gmail.com>
ha scritto:

> My cellphone spellchecker substituted "faith" for "fact".  I was trying to
> encourage the use of your approach.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 06:43 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> > Hoi,
> > I take offence calling it a faith-based process. We have a database with
> > the citations of all Wikipedias. We have overriding principles that
> include
> > the NPOV and what the role of functionaries is in Wikimedia projects.
> When
> > they are a faith, they are our faith.
> >
> > My question to you is, why are you reluctant to start a process that will
> > bring down many hobby horses including yours and the ones in your
> favourite
> > project. Why not start where we face an urgency? An urgency that
> undermines
> > Wikipedia as NPOV!
> > Thanks,
> >       GerardM
> >
> > On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 at 00:31, Dennis During <dcdur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Why not test-run the process on my favorite project - or yours?  We
> > should
> > > get started.
> > >
> > > I am skeptical of the quality of judgment without a foundation of
> facts.
> > > At Wiktionary we have two main definition evaluation processes, one
> > > dependent on citations to which interpretative judgment is applies. IMO
> > > this process works very well.  The other depends on opinion, votes,
> > > supported by whatever facts or authority or bluster (my specialty)
> > > advocates bring to bear.  That process, though adequate, is not as
> > > satisfactory.
> > >
> > > Gerard Meijssen has suggested a faith-based process. If it is almost
> > ready
> > > to go, let it be validated and put to use.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 16:45 Benjamin Lees <emufarm...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 8:06 AM Dennis During <dcdur...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Who is the judge? Are we going to join Facebook, Google, Twitter,
> et
> > al
> > > > as
> > > > > the new press barons?
> > > >
> > > > All of our work on the projects necessarily involves making
> judgments.
> > > > As a movement we have largely decided that editors on individual
> > > > projects should be the ones to make those judgments.  But in some
> > > > extreme cases, our judgment may be that we need different judges.
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 1:03 PM Dennis During <dcdur...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > It is important that any wiki process be applied fairly.  In this
> > case
> > > I
> > > > > think the Croatian wiki cannot be the first to have a new process
> > > > applied.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know whether this is the process we want.  But if it is,
> > > > somebody's gotta go first.
> > > >
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