The files made available as 'Wikimedia dumps' are not intended to be a full backup. And indeed that is not their purpose. People do set up mirrors using these dumps from time to time, though I have not done so recently.
Actual honest-to-goodness backups (database snapshots) are another thing altogether and one of the Wikimedia DBAs may want to talk about that. Ariel On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 4:52 PM Risker <[email protected]> wrote: > Without in any way suggesting that David's and Fae's question is > inappropriate....I suspect that the people most likely to have used/tested > the backups are not people who follow this list; they're much more likely > to participate on technical lists. > > It's actually a pretty good question, and Ariel Glenn of the WMF may be the > best person to ask since they seem to be managing the process of making the > files available. > > Risker/Anne > > On Wed, 9 Jan 2019 at 06:44, Fæ <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Location: This is a tangent, one that has been raised before as a > > /non-answer/ to the issue of actually getting on with contingency > > planning. Realistically I would start by looking at the potential > > matches of Sweden, Switzerland, the Netherlands (where servers already > > are used for WMF operations), or lastly and for very different > > reasons, Peru. > > > > What I find weird, or bizarro, is that the responses so far are vague > > dismissals for non-good fantastic reasons, at the level of "let magic > > blockchain technology solve it for free", rather than taking on board > > that preparing a hot switch for Wikimedia operations in a welcoming > > host country, is a highly cost effective disaster contingency plan, > > whether due to natural disasters in San Fran / Florida / Amsterdam, or > > due to national government using its legal authority to freeze, switch > > off or tamper with content due to politically inflated "security" or > > "emergency" issues. The risks are real and predictable, and as a > > globally recognized charity with plenty of money in the bank, the WMF > > should have contingency plans to ensure its continued existence, as > > any professional business actuary would advise. > > > > As a past IT auditor, what also made the hairs prick up on the back of > > my neck, was David Gerard's sensible question "So ... when did someone > > last test putting up a copy of the sites from > > the backups" - Could someone give a real answer to that please? If > > it's never, then wow, we all have to ask some hard questions of the > > WMF Board of exactly how they hold senior management to account. > > > > Thanks, > > Fae > > -- > > [email protected] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae > > > > On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 at 23:05, Nathan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Fae, > > > > > > I'm curious what nation you have in mind for your stable Plan B. Is it > > > Brexit Britain? France of the Yellow Vests and Front National? Perhaps > > > Orban's Hungary, Putin's Russia, or Germany with its recent right-wing > > > resurgence? > > > > > > Maybe you'd prefer Jair Bolsonaro's Brazil? I suppose in Italy we'd > worry > > > about Beppe and criminal libel statutes, while BJP would hardly seem > > > welcoming in India and I can't imagine you'd suggest a home on the > other > > > side of the Great Firewall. > > > > > > Maybe you're hinting at Canada, but otherwise, I'd love to understand > > what > > > island of liberal stability and legal safeguards you think is safe from > > the > > > vagaries of electoral politics or rigid authoritarianism. > > > > > > The countries I list above have their own flaws (although in each > case, I > > > believe, many desirable traits as well) as does any other alternative. > > > Anyone could reasonably argue it's unfair to stigmatize any of them by > > > glaringly public flaws. > > > > > > To my mind Steve Walling has it right - the very nature of Wikipedia is > > > maybe the best protection there could be, even against the absurdly > > > unlikely circumstance of a United States government takeover of > > Wikipedia. > > > > > > Nathan > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 12:17 PM Fæ <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear fellow Wikimedians, please sit back for a moment and ponder the > > > > following, > > > > > > > > For those of us not resident in the US, it has been genuinely > alarming > > > > to see highly respected US government archives vanish overnight, > > > > reference websites go down, and US legislation appear to drift to > > > > whatever commercial interests have the loudest current political > > > > voices. Sadly "populism" is happening now, and dominates American > > > > politics, driving changes of all sorts in response to politically > > > > inflated and vague rhetoric about "security" and "fakenews". It is > not > > > > inconceivable that a popularist current or future US Government could > > > > decide to introduce emergency controls over websites like Wikipedia, > > > > virtually overnight.[1][2][3][4] > > > > > > > > The question of whether the Wikimedia Foundation should have a hot > > > > switch option, so that if a "disaster" strikes in America, we could > > > > continue running Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons from other countries > > > > has been raised on this list several times over many years. The WMF > > > > and its employees are heavily invested in staying in Silicon Valley, > > > > and that will stay true unless external risks become extreme. > > > > > > > > However, there has never been a rationale to avoid investing in a > Plan > > > > B. A robust plan, where the WMF can switch operations over to a > > > > hosting country with a sufficiently welcoming with stable national > > > > government and legislation, that our projects could continue to meet > > > > our open knowledge goals virtually uninterrupted and without risk of > > > > political control. A Plan B would ensure that if the US Government > > > > started to discuss controlling Wikipedia, then at least that > published > > > > plan would be a realistic response. If they tried doing it, we could > > > > simply power off our servers in the USA, rather than compromise our > > > > content. > > > > > > > > If anyone knows of committed investment in a practical WMF Plan B, it > > > > would be reassuring to share it more widely at this time. If not, > more > > > > of us should be asking about it, politely, persistently but perhaps > > > > less patiently than indefinitely. :-) > > > > > > > > Links: > > > > 1. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46739180 > > > > 2. http://www.lse.ac.uk/ideas/research/updates/populism > > > > 3. > > > > > > > https://www.cnet.com/news/obama-signs-order-outlining-emergency-internet-control > > > > "... this order was designed to empower certain governmental agencies > > > > with control over telecommunications and the Web during natural > > > > disasters and security emergencies." > > > > 4. > > > > > > > https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/01/presidential-emergency-powers/576418 > > > > "The president could seize control of U.S. internet traffic, impeding > > > > access to certain websites and ensuring that internet searches return > > > > pro-Trump content as the top results." > > > > 5. Bizarro, as used in the title of this email: > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bizarro_World > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Fae > > > > -- > > > > [email protected] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae_______________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: [email protected] > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: [email protected] > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > -- > > [email protected] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae > > Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: [email protected] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [email protected] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
