I read this: On the other side, people who do outreach push too much for results with lmited understanding of the ecosystem they ask students to interact. I have met people who ask for "button men" at their initiatives with poor regard for the real expertise, often overselling what they do. it's not nice to be treated superficially when you try to explain why a certain topic is not relevant or why sending a ticket is appropriate for a certain image. If you are too focused on "your stuff", I wouldn't be surprised if you don't care for a functional working environment as well. You just expect someone else to build it for you.
And I want to talk about what we did in this situation, and why the environment triggers frustration. First, when the professors came with the idea of creating multimedia contents for making richer Wikipedia articles, we focused on some issues: the content should be as neutral as possible, all the content should be original and the music used should be cc-by-(sa). We explained this idea twice in two different meetings, first with one professor, then with all the team that was going to guide the students. Second, we stressed on this ideas with students during a four hours (four hours!) workshop. We gave them examples of bad content, we gave them examples of good content, we encouraged them to use only free sources and we explained how to work on Commons and why the content should be there. Third, the professors spent three more weeks with them, helping develop the video, how to make good recordins, how to make them more neutral (what to focus on), and how to find material that could be reused. Fourth, I went again with them to a four hour class where we revised all the materials, we certified that all the music was free, we checked all the illustrations and we asked not to upload those that were of poor value or had any doubt about their copyright status. Fifth, we helped students to find suitable songs for their videos, how to tag that the files were derivative works if applicable using Commons uploading system, how to fill everything if they were using video2commons and how to use the materials on wikipedia. It was my fourth morning with the students, and the third one dedicated to Commons. We also explained again what was the difference between free access and free license, because some of the students didn't get why we were not allowing them to upload some content. Sixth, yes, there is a sixth, I spent another morning with the professors evaluating all the materials from a wikimedian point of view, talking about their quality and designing improvements for next year. Students then presented their works to a broader audience at the University. Seventh, students went on vacations. At this moment an admin decided that all the previous work was not valid and claimed that it should be DW. Period. And then I noticed that some stuff was missing when I started to write a report about the experience for the Outreach Newsletter. And as I have followed all the steps, I have a dedicated place at the Outreach Dashboard where I can track everything this students created, uploaded or edited: https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/HUHEZI/Ikus-entzunezko_komunikazioa_(2019)/home . This content is public and can be easily reached in our dedicated education programme portal: https://eu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari:Hezkuntza It should be maybe few days spent with them explaining how Commons work, what licenses are suitable and why free content matters. If you feel so, then I should explain that we have created two videotutorials, a leaflet and a small book explaining everything we were explaining direcdtly to them, so if they had any doubt they could read them. And we gave a copy to each student, so they could have a guidance. And we also gave them a direct e-mail so they could ask for copyrights issues: two of them did it and we gave them some answers. Cheers Galder ________________________________ From: Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org> on behalf of Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2019 5:30 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach We have dozens of cross project brainstorming off-wiki. But the general feeling is often that if you encourage the social dynamics of a platform in a way that people who like to "play cops" are a key actor... when this is established there is no point in creating sophisticated or efficient tools, because as long as they force such people to work in a different way they will kinda oppose them. For example, many time I find a deleted file I could spot dozens of similar in the very same category and the few times I have asked the user who deleted it or ask the deletion, I could feel he had no real interested in completing the job. The fight for copyright is not a goal, it's a just a mean for him. He probably has fun cherry-picking one random file, with no consistent approach. So how many times for example I found files from the USA where there is no FOP for statues deleted maybe if uploaded by the European users but not by the American ones. Because of course if you did delete them all (as you should), enwikipedia community will notice and it will be a bigger deal.. it's a problem when all images of a monument disappear, right? So let's delete some random files, and vanish when somebody point out the other ones, just to repeat the same pattern somewhere else after a while. That's why it's so easy to find en-N users from the USA who have limited clue with rule of FOP. Now, the users who perform this type of deletion pattern will dislike any tools or preference who simply encourage to do it in a consistent way... they are expert and they know how categories work, if they don't complete the job is probably because they don't want to. If we get close to the issue, we manage to get around some "the newbes will misuse it" or "its a delicate matter", I guess the "good faith " clause will appear. So, we keep a random patrolling and retropatrolling on this issue, which means poor overall copyright literacy, angry users because of the procedural incoherence and in the end a huge backlog (since the bulk of the files remain there). Take this dynamics, in other fields, with different nuances, multiplied by a dozens of different legal and workload scenarios and voilà. You have one of the reason of our current situation. I guess there is no tool which can fix that, it's just the way a community really wants to be. Tools can help to encourage people to think differently of course, but I fear that would be a strong resistance. A. M: Il lunedì 13 maggio 2019, 16:56:49 CEST, Samuel Klein <meta...@gmail.com> ha scritto: Ditto. But did not have the impression that this was {a, the} pressing need. Perhaps we also need better ways to highlight workload overloads (and continue conversations about them through time, rather than sporadic proposals of specific implementations that can easily fail) to stimulate cross-project brainstorming to solve the most pressing problems of scale On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 6:02 AM James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote: > I have a fairly good understanding of copyright. Deal with a fair bit of > copyright issues occurring via paid editing and flicker washing of images > and would be happy to do admin work around that if the Commons community > was interested. > > James > > On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 4:00 AM Paulo Santos Perneta < > paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Wikimedia project communities in general seem to be quite stagnant, if > not > > declining, apart from Wikidata, which is and always will be a whole > > different case. In the case of Commons it was already very much as it is > > now when I joined in 2009. I always found it a very pleasant place, but > > overtime I understood I was the exception there, and most people had bad > > experiences. And it is as Yann has shown there, it's a few sysops running > > the entire show almost alone, not because they want that, but because > > nobody else helps with that. > > > > IMO the problem is not with the existing sysops, but because people in > > general do not feel attracted to copyright and other similar minucious > > stuff which marks everyday life in Commons. And, without that knowledge > it > > is pointless, if not counterproductive, to place a candidacy to sysop. No > > idea what the solution could be, but it certainly is not blaming Commons > > and the existing sysops. If more people was interested in copyright, less > > mistakes would be happening in Commons as well. Whatever the solution is, > > it probably passes by that. > > > > Best, > > Paulo > > > > Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <galder...@hotmail.com> escreveu no dia > segunda, > > 13/05/2019 à(s) 07:09: > > > > > A good question to ask would be why the admin group is not growing. And > > > maybe (maybe) we can find a common answer to both problems pointed > here. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > -- > James Heilman > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> -- Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529 4266 _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
