Yann, you SERIOUSLY need to back up this claim of "dishonesty" on the
part of a Wikmedian of long experience.  Your assumption of bad faith
here is stupendous.

You can't simultaneously complain of the workload, then work this hard
to drive people away.


- d.


On Mon, 13 May 2019 at 05:10, Yann Forget <yan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This was reverted. It is a dishonest edit with a misleading summary.
>
> Regards,
> Yann
> Jai Jagat 2020 Grand March Coordinator
> https://www.jaijagat2020.org/
> +91-74 34 93 33 58 (also WhatsApp)
>
>
>
> Le dim. 12 mai 2019 à 19:59, Andrew Lih <andrew....@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
> > This episode exposes a policy of Commons that may be unknown to many folks
> > - the precautionary principle.
> >
> > It is an explicit exception to assuming good faith, so I noted this on the
> > AGF page on Commons.
> >
> >
> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Assume_good_faith&oldid=prev&diff=349650525
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 10:23 AM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
> > galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > As I am the author of the post, some remarks:
> > >
> > >   *   Commons is, indeed, the only [cloud] storage for file in most of
> > the
> > > Wikipedias. Making an accusation of using Commons as a storage place is
> > > unfair and nonsense.
> > >   *   Communication could be better, of course, but we don't have to
> > think
> > > on experienced editors and wikimedians, but on people we are trying to
> > > convince to upload to the Commons and find this burden. They don't know
> > how
> > > to communicate and why they must do it.
> > >   *   The upload system allow you to upload something if you are the
> > > author. Period.
> > >   *   Claiming that something is a derivative work without saying which
> > is
> > > the original work is not a good practice.
> > >   *   Of course, commons volunteers are few, and they have a great
> > > job-queue. But outreach volunteers are less, and a project like this can
> > > take a whole year of volunteer work.
> > >   *   After all the victim-blaming seen on this discussion no one was
> > able
> > > to point to a page where the procedure was clear for everyone.
> > >
> > > Let's hope we can follow with this project next year and we will have
> > less
> > > problems.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Galder
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org> on behalf of
> > > Vi to <vituzzu.w...@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2019 3:35 PM
> > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach
> > >
> > > I wonder wheter local sysops could be allowed to delete/undelete images
> > on
> > > commons in order to reduce workload. Most risky commons' uploads come
> > from
> > > cw-upload, allow local sysops to handle them could work.
> > >
> > > Vito
> > >
> > > Il giorno dom 12 mag 2019 alle ore 15:31 James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > ha scritto:
> > >
> > > > It is hard to get the admin bit there aswell. Is Commons interested in
> > > > having more admins?
> > > >
> > > > James
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 5:41 AM Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > A couple of years ago a proposed project was for the WMF to pay for
> > > > > access to the Google image matching API access so we could run a
> > > > > copyvio bot on the live new uploads list. Such a bot would not be
> > > > > terribly hard to get working, and would be a great experiment to see
> > > > > if this aspect of the more boring side of sysop tools could be
> > > > > reduced.[1]
> > > > >
> > > > > Not specifically advocating auto-deletion, but daily housekeeping
> > > > > image matches to highly likely copyrighted categories would make mass
> > > > > housekeeping very easy.
> > > > >
> > > > > A separate old chestnut was my proposal to introduce systemic image
> > > > > hashes, which neatly show "close" image matches.[2] With a Commons
> > hat
> > > > > on, such a project would be of far more immediate pragmatic use than
> > > > > mobile-related and structured data-related projects that seem to suck
> > > > > up all the oxygen and volunteer time available.
> > > > >
> > > > > Note that the history of these project/funding ideas is so long, that
> > > > > several of the most experienced long term volunteers that were
> > > > > originally interested have since retired. Without some positive short
> > > > > term encouragement, not only do these ideas never reach the useful
> > > > > experiment stage, but the volunteers involved simply fade away.
> > > > >
> > > > > Links
> > > > > 1.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2016/02#Google_has_opened_an_API_for_image_recognition
> > > > > 2. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/Imagehash
> > > > >
> > > > > Fae
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 12:21, Amir Sarabadani <ladsgr...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > IMO commons need either a Clue Bot NG for new uploads or ores
> > support
> > > > for
> > > > > > images that might be copyright violation, or both.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:10 PM Yaroslav Blanter <ymb...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just the active community itself is too small, compared with the
> > > > > amount of
> > > > > > > material it has to deal with.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > > Yaroslav
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:07 PM Benjamin Ikuta <
> > > > > benjaminik...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Is the shortage of admins due to a lack of people willing or
> > > > capable
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > the job, or increasing difficulty in obtaining the bit?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On May 12, 2019, at 3:55 AM, Tomasz Ganicz <
> > polime...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Well, Actually, at the moment it looks they are all
> > undeleted.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The good habit - which I was keeping when organizing several
> > > > > > > GLAM-related
> > > > > > > > > mass uploads - was to create on Commons project page
> > describing
> > > > > what it
> > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > intended to be uploaded, preferably in English. Then you can
> > > > > create a
> > > > > > > > > project template to mark all uploads with them.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > See: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Partnerships
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Despite practical issue of avoiding unnecessary clashes with
> > > > > Common's
> > > > > > > > > admins - creating template and project page helps to promote
> > > you
> > > > > > > project
> > > > > > > > > across Wikimedia communities and may inspire others to do
> > > > something
> > > > > > > > similar.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Commons is indeed quite hostile environment for uploaders,
> > but
> > > on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > > hand it is constantly flooded by hundreds  of copyright
> > > violating
> > > > > > > files a
> > > > > > > > > day:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > See the list from just one day:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/2019/05/01
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > so this hostility works both ways - Common's admins have to
> > > cope
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > aggressive hostile copyright violators every day, and after
> > > some
> > > > > time -
> > > > > > > > > decide to leave or became being hostile themselves... and the
> > > > other
> > > > > > > issue
> > > > > > > > > is decreasing number of active admins and OTRS agents.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I think - sooner or later - all this system - uploads -
> > > screening
> > > > > > > uploads
> > > > > > > > > by admins, and OTRS agreements - needs deep rethinking.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > niedz., 12 maj 2019 o 10:48 Mister Thrapostibongles <
> > > > > > > > > thrapostibong...@gmail.com> napisał(a):
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> Hello all,
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the
> > > Commons
> > > > > > > > components
> > > > > > > > >> of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia
> > Commons: a
> > > > > highly
> > > > > > > > >> hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at the
> > > > > Education
> > > > > > > > >> Newsletter
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> As far as I can understand it, some students on an Outreach
> > > > > project
> > > > > > > > >> uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone
> > on
> > > > > Commons
> > > > > > > > >> deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be
> > student
> > > > > projects
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> so concluded they were copyright violations.  But some
> > rather
> > > > odd
> > > > > > > > remarks
> > > > > > > > >> were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of
> > uploaded
> > > > > > > > copyrighted
> > > > > > > > >> content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that
> > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > care."
> > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > >> "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud
> > > > storage
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > > >> images you intend to use on Wikipedia ".
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute?
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> Thrapostibongles
> > > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > and
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> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> > > > > > > > > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> > > > > > > > > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Amir (he/him)
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > James Heilman
> > > > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> >
> > --
> > -Andrew Lih
> > Author of The Wikipedia Revolution
> > US National Archives Citizen Archivist of the Year (2016)
> > Knight Foundation grant recipient - Wikipedia Space (2015)
> > Wikimedia DC - Outreach and GLAM
> > Previously: professor of journalism and communications, American
> > University, Columbia University, USC
> > ---
> > Email: and...@andrewlih.com
> > WEB: https://muckrack.com/fuzheado
> > PROJECT: Wikipedia Space: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:WPSPACE
> > _______________________________________________
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