Well, you'll get no argument from me that I wish people wouldn't be
gratuitously rude. (Or use that word; nothing good ever comes of that.)

I am certainly not endorsing that. At the same time, some of the most
disruptive editors I've seen were unfailingly polite.

Todd

On Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 3:40 PM Robert Fernandez <wikigamal...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Framing it as "competence over politeness" is convenient for the
> people who do not want the latter and imagine they are the former.
>
> It also insults the editors who have managed to do both.  I know an
> en.wp editor who has dozens of FAs and somehow managed the herculean
> feat of not referring to anyone on Wikipedia using the c-word.
>
> Framing it as "the culture of the community" leaves out of the
> community all of us who are sick of this behavior, including long-time
> veterans of the community like myself (fifteen years), and community
> victims of harassment asking T&S for help.
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 1:58 PM Todd Allen <toddmal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > "Before asking why WMF has banned an admin (and if Fram was not an admin,
> > all these discussions would not have been done), we need to ask ourselves
> > why we (other users) have allowed such an attitude without intervening to
> > stop it."
> >
> > First, if Fram were a well-known editor but not an admin, yes, there
> > absolutely would be such a discussion. But as to why, the answer, very
> > simply, is that the English Wikipedia community values competence over
> > politeness, and probably always will. That is part of the culture of the
> > community, and the WMF has no right to override that.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 6:46 AM camelia boban <camelia.bo...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I quote David and Isaac.
> > > Harassment is a serious thing and hounding another user is out of any
> wiki
> > > behavior.
> > > Before asking why WMF has banned an admin (and if Fram was not an
> admin,
> > > all these discussions would not have been done), we need to ask
> ourselves
> > > why we (other users) have allowed such an attitude without intervening
> to
> > > stop it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Camelia
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > *Camelia Boban*
> > >
> > > *| Java EE Developer |*
> > >
> > > *Affiliations Committee - **Wikimedia *Foundation
> > > Coordinator - Diversity Working Group for Wikimedia Strategy 2030
> > > Chair & co-founder - WikiDonne User Group *| WikiDonne Project ideator*
> > >
> > > *Diversity Space @ Wikimania 2019 Co-Lead*
> > > WMIT - WMSE - WMCH - WMAR Member
> > >
> > > M. +39 3383385545
> > > camelia.bo...@gmail.com
> > > *Aissa Technologies* <http://aissatechnologies.eu/>* | *Twitter
> > > <https://twitter.com/cameliaboban> *|* *LinkedIn
> > > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/camelia-boban-31319122>*
> > > *Wikipedia <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utente:Camelia.boban> **|
> > > **WikiDonne
> > > UG <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiDonne>* | *WikiDonne Project
> > > <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progetto:WikiDonne> *
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Il giorno ven 14 giu 2019 alle ore 14:32 Mister Thrapostibongles <
> > > thrapostibong...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
> > >
> > > > Fæ
> > > >
> > > > [...] the pre-existing understanding that the WMF do not replace
> > > > > existing and perfectly adequate community agreed procedures for
> > > > > banning bad behaviour on our projects.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunately, there is ample evidence that the existing English
> > > Wikipedia
> > > > community processes are not "perfectly adequate" for that purpose.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > If the English
> > > > > Wikipedia's policies are not fit for purpose, or implementation of
> > > > > policy is incompetent, we need a much bigger discussion
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Indeed.  Unfortunately the tone of the discussion here and at
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_response_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation%27s_ban_of_Fram
> > > > suggests
> > > > that the requisite discussion is now less, not more, likely to
> happen or
> > > be
> > > > productive.
> > > >
> > > > Thrapostibongles
> > > > _______________________________________________
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