You ought to read the entire paragraph. Such as the part where I explicitly
acknowledged that Fram's version of events may be inaccurate or incomplete.

Todd

On Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 5:03 PM David Gerard <dger...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If you really think Fram's framing of events here is even plausible,
> let alone the story, then you're less competent than I have previously
> considered you to be.
>
> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 18:47, Todd Allen <toddmal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > According to Fram, the WMF told him his "interaction ban" was for
> > maintenance tagging two articles, yes (and when I looked at the diffs,
> the
> > maintenance tags were accurate and necessary). So, either Fram is lying
> or
> > omitting something (and the WMF, for whatever reason, is not challenging
> > him on it), the WMF lied to Fram, or they did indeed sanction him for
> what
> > they told him they sanctioned him for.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 4:37 AM David Gerard <dger...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > and you're *seriously* positing that the WMF would ban an admin for
> > > doing only what you describe?
> > >
> > > On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 11:32, Todd Allen <toddmal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The only case of "harassment" apparently cited here was "I kept
> writing
> > > > garbage articles, and someone kept flagging them as garbage!
> Harassment!
> > > > Bad!"
> > > >
> > > > If you don't want your articles to be flagged as garbage, FIND YOUR
> > > SOURCES
> > > > PRIOR TO WRITING THEM, AND CITE THEM. That's rather a requirement
> anyway.
> > > > The editor in question repeatedly failed to do that, repeatedly had
> her
> > > > articles flagged for failure to do that, and regarded that as
> > > "harassment"
> > > > rather than her own failure to follow the English Wikipedia's
> policies.
> > > > Next time, she needs to find the sources first, and write the article
> > > only
> > > > after she has them in hand.
> > > >
> > > > Todd
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 10:14 AM Robert Fernandez <
> > > wikigamal...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > If someone is able to harass someone for years and nothing is done
> then
> > > > > clearly community procedures are not “perfectly adequate”
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 11:36 AM Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > This misses the point, as others have highlighted already.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The WMF can and /should/ globally and permanently ban
> paedophiles,
> > > > > > terrorists, system hackers and people making multiple cross-wiki
> > > death
> > > > > > threats or threats of suicide. There are perfectly good and
> > > > > > understandable reasons as to why the evidence behind these
> attacks
> > > and
> > > > > > threats would be kept unpublished, it's seriously personal or
> > > criminal
> > > > > > stuff.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The WMF making topic bans, interaction bans and limited project
> > > > > > specific bans against Wikipedians is a brand new invention, which
> > > goes
> > > > > > against the pre-existing understanding that the WMF do not
> replace
> > > > > > existing and perfectly adequate community agreed procedures for
> > > > > > banning bad behaviour on our projects. Once full time WMF
> employees
> > > > > > start doing in parallel what volunteer administrators already do,
> > > then
> > > > > > we should question why we do not *pay* volunteers administrators
> the
> > > > > > same hourly rate and we are likely to see a mass exodus of
> > > > > > administrators. After all, would you, say, deliver the post for
> free
> > > > > > in your area for fun, but thereby take away decent full time
> > > > > > employment with a guaranteed pension for your local postie?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the reason for the WMF stepping in to ban Fram for a year is
> > > > > > because the WMF do not trust Wikipedia administrators or
> Wikipedia's
> > > > > > Arbcom to take sensible action in harassment cases, then they
> should
> > > > > > be raising that honestly and openly with Arbcom. If the English
> > > > > > Wikipedia's policies are not fit for purpose, or implementation
> of
> > > > > > policy is incompetent, we need a much bigger discussion than
> whether
> > > > > > Fram did something so terrible it cannot be named, but oddly was
> not
> > > > > > worth a global ban but only the equivalent of a 12 month block on
> > > > > > Wikipedia while they are free to do whatever they feel like on
> other
> > > > > > Wikimedia projects.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Fae
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 15:35, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When you bad mouth other users there should be, and will be,
> > > > > > consequences.
> > > > > > > An admin got desysoped and banned after repeated warnings? So
> > > what? The
> > > > > > > only ting to be learned is that some people believe they can do
> > > > > whatever
> > > > > > > they want and it has no consequences, and other people goes
> > > ballistic
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > > consequences happen.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would have given desysoped fram and 14 days to cool off, and
> if
> > > that
> > > > > > did
> > > > > > > not work out repeated with one month. Banning someone for one
> year
> > > is
> > > > > > like
> > > > > > > telling them to leave and don't come back. Someone at WMF is
> > > clearly
> > > > > > overly
> > > > > > > sensitive, but not reacting would also be wrong.
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