I didn't put my words in your mouth -- I quoted your own words precisely,
and the implication you were trying to make is obvious; so respectfully,
please refrain from gaslighting here. I simply suggested dropping the
hyperbole of  "star chambers and kangaroo courts", "secret trials punishing
people who don't know they're being accused' and "very basic principle[s]
of Human Rights and dignity" over someone getting banned from a website
over bad conduct issues.  You need not reply -- I'm done with this portion
of the conversation.

On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 1:03 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have never said that this is a human rights violation, so please don't
> put your words on my mouth.
>
> I have said that the general principles of equality, right to fair trial,
> not having ones honor damaged by baseless accusations, etc. which are
> present at the UDHR are being forgotten here.
>
> Of course you may argue that since the WMF is a private organization, they
> are free to engage in this kind of secret trials, star chambers and
> kangaroo courts at will. As others already stated, the matter here is not
> if they can, but if they should be engaging on those schemes, as they are
> now.
>
> Best,
> Paulo
>
>
>
> A sábado, 15 de jun de 2019, 18:39, Dan Rosenthal <swatjes...@gmail.com>
> escreveu:
>
> > There is no "very basic principle of Human Rights and dignity" to be free
> > from the presumption of guilt by others.  You may be confusing Article 11
> > of the UHDR, but this applies explicitly only to "penal offenses."
> Unless
> > Fram is getting locked up in prison for his actions, let's drop the
> absurd
> > hyperbole that this is somehow a human rights violation.
> >
> >
> > Dan Rosenthal
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 11:35 AM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > People shouldn't be going with any random option, but rather presume
> the
> > > innocence of others unless guilt is proven by some legit process.
> > > It seems that this very basic principle of Human Rights and dignity is
> > > being forgotten.
> > > There is not the least appearance of due process happening there, but
> > that
> > > has not stopped people from finding themselves their guilty part of
> > > election, using their own bias to evaluate the case.
> > > Including some Wikipedia related social network accounts that should be
> > > acting more responsible and wiser than joining the rabble in the
> offwiki
> > > harassment of their guilty part of choice.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Paulo
> > >
> > > geni <geni...@gmail.com> escreveu no dia sábado, 15/06/2019 à(s)
> 17:15:
> > >
> > > > On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 at 00:04, David Gerard <dger...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > If you really think Fram's framing of events here is even
> plausible,
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > What you are calling Fram's framing appears to be a the WMF's version
> > > > of events as told to fram. The WMF does look slightly better if you
> > > > remember that T&S arw trying to improve behaviour through threat of
> > > > blocks not file a diff heavy arbcom case.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  >let alone the story
> > > >
> > > > Given that the other versions of "the story" are T&S's PR waffle or
> > > > conspiracy theories it understandable that people are going to go
> with
> > > > the option that at least gives them something to work from.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > geni
> > > >
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