Gerard, I think your comment is highly inappropriate. I don't generally
like to pile on, but this needs calling out. When discussing these
sensitive topics, the very least we can expect, is a careful approach to
the matter.

I don't know the underlying situation well enough to establish who's right,
to verify claims or to find whether the actions taken are reasonable (be it
towards Romaine or towards the complainants). I can only assume you have
roughly the same amount of information - and in such a situation a level of
humility would be fitting.

We can discuss process, but should never say that involved parties 'make
this about themselves'. Leave that determination to those who are actually
familiar with all the facts.

Lodewijk

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 4:03 PM Philip Kopetzky <philip.kopet...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks Molly for your thoughtful words, I really hope your words make some
> people think about their own replies in this thread.
>
> On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 23:42, GorillaWarfare <
> gorillawarfarewikipe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I do not know Romaine, I do not know Caroline, and I do not know much
> about
> > the events that have led up to all of this other than what has been said
> on
> > this mailing list. It is easy to take sides in cases like these, based on
> > who you know best, your past experiences with that person, and a
> multitude
> > of other reasons. I suspect no one truly knows the whole story (even the
> > folks who were directly involved—after all, you can never know the
> > intentions of another person, or how they are interpreting your own
> > actions). But what we do know is that some actions Romaine took led to
> > Trust & Safety deciding they needed to intervene. They are tasked with
> > keeping people within our movement safe, both online and in person at
> > events. In my experience they do an extremely good job.
> >
> > It is extremely disappointing, and *extremely typical* of the Wikimedia
> > movement, to see an entire thread like this dedicated to supporting
> someone
> > who Trust & Safety has found to have acted in such a way that they had to
> > intervene. It is even more disappointing to see a person who was affected
> > by his actions told "this is not your story" and "it may help you when
> you
> > grow some sensitivity and respect this experience, the
> > feelings of others."
> >
> > If you're wondering why women leave the Wikimedia movement, and why
> > Wikimedia has such a bad harassment problem in general, just reflect on
> > this thread.
> >
> > – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GorillaWarfare
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 6:26 PM Pierre-Selim <pierre-se...@huard.info>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Her POV ?
> > >
> > > Well I can confirm what Caroline said.
> > >
> > > What more do you want ? To verify all other reports ?
> > >
> > > It's sad that things have escalated this far, but may be it's time to
> > > wonder why it escalated like that. There was multiple incidents
> reported.
> > > Things that should have stayed private were told on this mailing list
> by
> > > Romaine... well when do we stop this ?
> > >
> > > Please keep in mind when you cast your support here that people who
> have
> > > reported Romaine might be reading this.
> > >
> > > Le jeu. 20 juin 2019 à 23:12, Gerard Meijssen <
> gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > a
> > > écrit :
> > >
> > > > Caroline,
> > > > For me this is not your story. Your insistence of making it so has
> > quite
> > > > the opposite effect. I have known Romaine, the tireless efforts for
> us
> > > all
> > > > he has given us over the years, I grieve for our collective loss. I
> do
> > > not
> > > > know you and you are intruding on what is a feeling shared by many.
> It
> > > may
> > > > help you when you grow some sensitivity and respect this experience,
> > the
> > > > feelings of others. Maybe it is too difficult for you, I do not know
> > as I
> > > > do not know you at all.
> > > >
> > > > What I wonder is to what extend do you know Romaine, to what extend
> are
> > > you
> > > > stuck in your pov.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >      GerardM
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 19:00, Caroline Becker <
> carobecke...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This is such a lost. Not only did you waisted an opportunity to
> learn
> > > and
> > > > > grow from your mistakes the first time, you reiterate here, showing
> > no
> > > > > willingness to grow and learn.
> > > > >
> > > > > But why would you take the difficult path, when by just claiming
> your
> > > > right
> > > > > to "weirdness" (which I guess only apply to you and none to the
> > people
> > > > you
> > > > > hurt), you're rewarding with public support ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Caroline
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Le jeu. 20 juin 2019 à 18:55, Dennis During <dcdur...@gmail.com> a
> > > > écrit :
> > > > >
> > > > > > I am ashamed that the movement has a climate that allows this
> > > > unfortunate
> > > > > > outcome
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 7:15 AM Romaine Wiki <
> > romaine.w...@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >  Dear community,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > About a month ago I have decided that I will indefinitely no
> > longer
> > > > > > attend
> > > > > > > any WMF funded events as result of bullying, attempts to
> silence
> > > me,
> > > > > > > intimidation and treats against me. This has resulted in that I
> > > feel
> > > > > > > extremely unsafe as the result of the behaviour of only a few
> > > > > > individuals.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Dennis C. During
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
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